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Old 05-09-2006, 01:27 PM
AndysFords AndysFords is offline
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Diesel Secret

I see people talking about this Diesel Secret. They say that its only snake oil. Yes they are right. But how many of them have tried it? I ordered it and it seems to make the veggie oil and #2 mix properly while you can't mix them any other way. I'm sure a lot of you have tried to mix them and they won't mix. I put this "Diesel Secret" and it seems to have mixed together. What do ya'll think about it?
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Old 05-09-2006, 01:36 PM
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I do not care what kind of solvent you mix in VO and diesel will not stay mixed for long
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Old 05-09-2006, 02:37 PM
dslmn dslmn is offline
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The diesel secret is not really a secret. Check out Tickell's chapter in "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" on running a diesel on WVO/kerosene mix. The snake oil part comes from buying the additive which is not essential to the process. The mix is really a suspension, i.e. the oil does not dissolve in the kerosene and if left unagitated for any length of time will begin to separate into layers. Normal agitation and sloshing from driving will serve to keep it mixed. But the investment to use it is not markedly different from bio and you have to buy kerosene to mix with it. A SVO conversion makes more sense in the long run if you don't want to do bio.

Last edited by dslmn; 05-09-2006 at 02:38 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-09-2006, 04:38 PM
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Phydeaux88 Phydeaux88 is offline
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Diesel is a mixture of petroleum distillates ranging from 12 to 16 carbons in length

Kerosene is a mixture of petroleum distillates ranging from 10 to 15 carbons in length

Bio diesel is a mixture of esterified fatty acids ranging from 10 to 16 carbons in length

Do you notice a pattern here. The molecules of these three are very close to each other in molecular size and weight thus in specific gravity, they are miscible (will form a true mixture).

Vegitable Oil (VO) is a complex molecule it has a glycerine (3 carbon) bridge with 3 fatty acids 10 to 16 carbons each attached. A molecule of VO is much larger and heavier than the other three and has a different specific gravity. IT IS NOT MISCIBLE WITH EITHER OF THE OTHER THREE INCLUDING KEROSENE.

VO will seperate from the other three. The motion of the truck, while driving, may retard seperation but once it sits overnight they will be seperated and the trucks motion will not recreate the suspension.

You cannot change the laws of physics or chemistry by adding a little snake oil.
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Last edited by Phydeaux88; 05-09-2006 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 05-09-2006, 05:39 PM
dslmn dslmn is offline
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While I agree with most everything you just said, it really has nothing to do with the stability of a suspension of various petrochemicals and VO. Milk is a suspension of fatty acids, inorganic compounds, oils, sugars, and proteins, yet it does not separate readily.
The stability of a suspension is dependent on more than molecular weights and densities and the VO/organic solvent suspensions under consideration here are highly complex situations: stability will depend on ph, temperature, and the mix of fatty acids. In addition, the long chain fatty acid ends of the molecules may be partially soluble in the petro products. The physical structure of the molecules may well determine most of the stability of the suspension. That physical structure determines polarity and solubility to a great extent.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:36 PM
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I say again that VO and diesel are not miscible adding Kerosene is only adding molecules in the same size weight and chemical makeup as diesel.

If you choose to believe otherwise start saving your money for a new engine
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Old 05-10-2006, 04:28 PM
rufaast rufaast is offline
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has anyone used diesel secret, and had any problems with WVO. Mixing it with the Diesel Secret. I have 2 friends with more than 10K on their mixtures and no problems, yet, One is a 03 7.3l the other is a 6.0L..
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Old 05-10-2006, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rufaast
has anyone used diesel secret, and had any problems with WVO. Mixing it with the Diesel Secret. I have 2 friends with more than 10K on their mixtures and no problems, yet, One is a 03 7.3l the other is a 6.0L..
10k is nothing. Show me the studys that have 100k or 200k without problems.

Like I've said all along............NOT IN MY DIESELS!!!


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Old 05-11-2006, 06:37 AM
rufaast rufaast is offline
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Well looks like a good alternative right now to me,, Dont know of anyone yet with a 100k on WVO. But if your in the driving business and diesel prices continue to go up . You too will be looking for an alternative. :O)
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rufaast
Well looks like a good alternative right now to me,, Dont know of anyone yet with a 100k on WVO. But if your in the driving business and diesel prices continue to go up . You too will be looking for an alternative. :O)
I already have an alternative I am in the process of putting together my BD reactor. I should by making safe fuel for less than $1.00/gal

If you are in the driving business you should be interested in protecting your vehicle.Why risk it by using somthing that has questionable (at best) science behind it.

If you want to cut cost of fuel and dont want to get into the BioDiesel making business then do the conversion and run straight WVO. You wont have to wonder if it is going to seperate into layers in your tank, as the Diesel Secret mix certainly will, and you wont have to worry about the consequences of burning straight unheated WVO.

You might save a few pennies now, the cost of conversion, but it may very well cost you major $$$, a new engine, in the future.
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Last edited by Phydeaux88; 05-11-2006 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rufaast
Well looks like a good alternative right now to me,, Dont know of anyone yet with a 100k on WVO. But if your in the driving business and diesel prices continue to go up . You too will be looking for an alternative. :O)
I already have an alternative.............I've been making and using Biodiesel for over two years

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Old 05-12-2006, 12:08 AM
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Milk is a suspension of fatty acids, inorganic compounds, oils, sugars, and proteins, yet it does not separate readily.
Wow, did you ever nail it with that one. This is true for the altered product you buy in cartons in a store but it is not true for the natural product. Milk begins separating within a short time of production. Left unagitated and unhomogenized it separates into distinct layers after a few hours. Left unrefrigerated for a few hours more it separates into yet different layers of products. Just because the cow has perfected a mixing mechanism that makes everything look good doesn't create a fool proof product.

Place some of your mixed fuel product into a clear tall glass jar and let it set at room temp for a month. Check it every day or so without moving the container. If it stays mixed for a month the mixing product is probably keeping the different fuels in suspension but that still wouldn't prove it's changing the chemical properties of the ingredients that can ruin your engine into a safe fuel.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:45 AM
Dave Barbieri Dave Barbieri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdford
Place some of your mixed fuel product into a clear tall glass jar and let it set at room temp for a month. Check it every day or so without moving the container. If it stays mixed for a month the mixing product is probably keeping the different fuels in suspension but that still wouldn't prove it's changing the chemical properties of the ingredients that can ruin your engine into a safe fuel.
Nice example. Now, let's take it a step further. After mixing the stuff and shaking the Mason jar real well, set it aside for the night. Do your visual inspection thing the next morning. Still mixed? Great. You're on your way to energy independence. (Setting aside your new dependence on DS, of course...)

Separated? Well, not so great. Whatever is at the bottom of the jar is what the fuel pickup tube will send on to the IP. Well, maybe the motion of the truck will remix the stuff. Put the jar on the floor of the truck and head for work, the lake, whatever. When you get there, check the jar again. Remixed? Great! Now ya know that all you gotta do is come out to the truck first thing in the morning and jump up and down on the rear bumper 25 - 30 times. And you're in business.

Still separated? Uh-oh. Bad news for Mr. IP. He's getting a steady diet of whatever's at the bottom of the jar (fuel tank). Let's hope it's something he likes.

OK, I'm guilty of being a little cute with the above illustration. It's the end of the semester, finals are over, and our grades go in today. I'm a little light-headed. However, all humor aside, I gotta tell ya that the learning curve can be a little expensive. Here's an example involving 'cheap' fuel:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/sh...6&page=1&pp=15

This thread is all about the use of WMO (Waste Motor Oil) in our IDI trucks. I had been following it pretty closely and decided about a month ago to give it a try. You can read about my experiment and experiences with WMO beginning on page 3 of the above thread. In a nuthsell, here's what I learned:

First, testimonials are NO substitute for hard data. You can read thru six hundred glowing, happy, wonderful descriptions of a product, but if it turns out that tens of thousands have been sold, and these are the ONLY happy people, then there's a serious problem with the product. But you'll never know that, because you've only seen page after page after page of wonderful words. You can read about the results of my decision to use WMO on page 4 of the above thread. I based my decision on testimonials from folks who had (and are) successfully using the stuff. In looking back over the thread, that decision was based on input from FOUR people. In my search for 'cut-rate' fuel choices, I disregarded data provided by others on the list. I felt that I had those areas covered. I was wrong, and I got blind-sided. Hard data is a wonderful thing. It is our friend.

Second, short term results are nice. Long term results are what you bet the farm (and your ride) on. Listen to people who have 60K, 70K, 90K miles on their rig. REALLY listen to people who have over 200K on theirs. The tips and tricks that these folks are describing have proven to work over the long haul. Snake oil is entertaining. Synthetic oil gets you back to the house.

Third, "Making wise choices is the result of experience. Experience is (usually) the result of making poor ones." I learned from my experiment/experience. The bad news is that it was a disaster. The good news is that it will only impact my beer budget for the next five months and I will recover. Coulda been worse. A LOT worse. Take the time to research thoroughly and then take some more time to try a few basic experiments (like above), before betting your truck's mechanical future on the outcome.
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Old 05-12-2006, 08:56 AM
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Very good Dave! Testimonials have little affect on me, you never know of the others motivation. Given enough money anyone will say anything! I just wish these greedy people would go away.....................ya right!


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Old 05-12-2006, 09:09 AM
AndysFords AndysFords is offline
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Thanks guys. I don't believe in the stuff. I just wanted to hear the pros and cons so that we could have some good data to use.
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:09 AM
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