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55forder has not been on this site for 8 years, as abe has indicated...this is a VERY old thread. As for all the banter about kids with 6 fingers and 10 yr olds working in chemical cesspools, I have not seen it myself. I have a friend that runs an off-road fabrication shop and he has a rep that comes in a couple times a week and picks up parts to be plated in TJ. I have had a bumper, grille, and some emblems done through this guy and all is top-notch work. The price was reasonable but not what I would consider to be cheap...probably about what I would have spent before the EPA/OSHA/CARB/ and all the other govt agencies ran all the plating shops out of the San Diego area.
I knew the owner of one of the local shops that closed...I guess I should know him, I must have put two of his kids through college with what I spent at his shop. It took him 10 years to get a permit to install a heavy copper plating tank in his shop. In that 10 years he had to ship all his heavy copper work to Los Angeles to be done. Now does anyone believe that heavy copper plating technology has not been proven to be safe? Why would it take 10 years to get through the bureaucratic maze to get a permit? I know the answer and it's not because the govt agencies are here to protect us. I am all for clean air and clean water and kids with just five fingers, but come on now...does it really take all this govt intervention to get that? I used to have a shop and the owner of the building where this shop was located was cited by the local code enforcer for a code violation. When I checked the city code book the code number that was written on the violation sheet did not exist...the city said that I was correct, the verbiage had not been finalized or published but when it was then we would be in violation of it...HUH! Corporations have been characterized as greedy but I think that the pendulum has now swung the other way...regulatory agencies have found a way to line their pockets at the expense of those trying to make an honest living.
Tried to give you reps on this but apparently I need to spread the love around more, so I'll just say publicly thank you for bringing some common sense and truth to the conversation. You summed it up perfectly.
If it moves regulate it and tax it. If not doesn't move kick it until it moves then regulate it and tax it. Oh but first have to pay a fine because it didn't move.....
The companies have brought it on themselves, IMO. My old employer does environmental remediation, and it is simply mind-boggling the things companies will do when there is no oversight, or what they'll try to get away with when there is. The stories are just sickening. Only one of our clients would seriously make the effort and spend the money to prevent environmental damage (and they spent hundreds of millions) without being forced to do it.
There is a pendulum but it never seems to settle down to a mid-point.
When the HAZMAT teams are called out to shut down a highway after a tanker was in an accident and leaked it's liquid load on the road to "prevent environmental damage" that's nuts...oh did I forget to mention, the load was MILK. The reason that the pendulum will never find a mid-point is because there is no end to the demands that the activists will come up with. We are buying gas with ethanol made from corn...WHY? It is not cleaner, it is not cheaper, it cost taxpayers millions in subsidies, and it raises the costs of all the products derived from corn. There is a move afoot to ban all automotive solvent-based paints...now they find that the benefits to this move are non-existant. So who bears the cost of this move? The spray booths in body shops are like operating rooms...how long can the public afford to pay the cost. Who watches the watchers?
When the HAZMAT teams are called out to shut down a highway after a tanker was in an accident and leaked it's liquid load on the road to "prevent environmental damage" that's nuts...oh did I forget to mention, the load was MILK. The reason that the pendulum will never find a mid-point is because there is no end to the demands that the activists will come up with. We are buying gas with ethanol made from corn...WHY? It is not cleaner, it is not cheaper, it cost taxpayers millions in subsidies, and it raises the costs of all the products derived from corn. There is a move afoot to ban all automotive solvent-based paints...now they find that the benefits to this move are non-existant. So who bears the cost of this move? The spray booths in body shops are like operating rooms...how long can the public afford to pay the cost. Who watches the watchers?
There is the real crux of the issue. We have a Constitution that clearly defines the function of each of our three governmental branches. However, to makes things easier/better for themselves, each of these branches forsaken some of those assigned duties. Only the US Congress has the power to make law, (according to the un-amended Constitution). But the three branches, together over time, have created sub-organizations that they have then given their powers to. These sub-orgs are now making the vast majority of laws that impact the average citizen. Not one of those laws are required to be approved by congress. They give them fancy names, like regulations and specifications. But they are mandates and laws by any name. The one missing sub-group is the one that would ensure those who are supposed to their job, at the very highest level, is doing it. I suppose one could argue the Constitutionality issues, but that probably should have been done when the shirking began.
When the HAZMAT teams are called out to shut down a highway after a tanker was in an accident and leaked it's liquid load on the road to "prevent environmental damage" that's nuts...oh did I forget to mention, the load was MILK. ....
That's a separate kind of abuse. One of my neighbors had chest pains and called 911 for paramedics. They sent an "emergency response" ambulance and... a ladder truck. I'd say easily half a million bucks worth of equipment, maybe more. No conceivable need for a ladder truck (or firemen, for that matter).
Why? so they can charge you for it, not because you need it or want it. Every time there's a fender bender, if there are injuries they send this ladder truck. And bill the "victims" for it. I have yet to see them even get out of the truck. I'd hate to think what the charges are for a HazMat response.
55forder has not been on this site for 8 years, as abe has indicated...this is a VERY old thread. As for all the banter about kids with 6 fingers and 10 yr olds working in chemical cesspools, I have not seen it myself. I have a friend that runs an off-road fabrication shop and he has a rep that comes in a couple times a week and picks up parts to be plated in TJ. I have had a bumper, grille, and some emblems done through this guy and all is top-notch work. The price was reasonable but not what I would consider to be cheap...probably about what I would have spent before the EPA/OSHA/CARB/ and all the other govt agencies ran all the plating shops out of the San Diego area. I knew the owner of one of the local shops that closed...I guess I should know him, I must have put two of his kids through college with what I spent at his shop. It took him 10 years to get a permit to install a heavy copper plating tank in his shop. In that 10 years he had to ship all his heavy copper work to Los Angeles to be done. Now does anyone believe that heavy copper plating technology has not been proven to be safe? Why would it take 10 years to get through the bureaucratic maze to get a permit? I know the answer and it's not because the govt agencies are here to protect us. I am all for clean air and clean water and kids with just five fingers, but come on now...does it really take all this govt intervention to get that? I used to have a shop and the owner of the building where this shop was located was cited by the local code enforcer for a code violation. When I checked the city code book the code number that was written on the violation sheet did not exist...the city said that I was correct, the verbiage had not been finalized or published but when it was then we would be in violation of it...HUH! Corporations have been characterized as greedy but I think that the pendulum has now swung the other way...regulatory agencies have found a way to line their pockets at the expense of those trying to make an honest living.
How much have you had to think today, Sir? Maybe you need to get put on a list somewhere, pal.
That's a separate kind of abuse. One of my neighbors had chest pains and called 911 for paramedics. They sent an "emergency response" ambulance and... a ladder truck. I'd say easily half a million bucks worth of equipment, maybe more. No conceivable need for a ladder truck (or firemen, for that matter).
Ross -my father in law sold Firetrucks for a living. The demand was so high he out sold the factory production one year and they told him to stop selling for three years so they could catch up. That pic looks like one of his trucks. Have fun.
One of the 3 biggest and best architectural millwork shops in the country is in LA. They have been in business for many years and they spray a lot of nitrocellulose lacquer (and stronger) and have for years. In the late 80's there was a huge explosion at a lacquer manufacturing plant when a ground wire had been accidentally cut by a passing forklift. A lot of regulations came to being after that explosion, one of them being that spray booths where a large amount of lacquer was being sprayed per day had to have an afterburn system followed by a cooling system for the heated air before the filtered air could be released into the atmosphere. At the large (I am not going to name the business) millwork shop they would have had to spend over a million dollars to comply. The main partner (whose father started the business in the 50's) who took home about 12 million per year, decided to move the finish department across the border to Mexico less than a mile south of San Diego. Not only did he save money by not paying for an expensive piece of equipment that would clean the exhaust air, he saved by not having any safety at all, and paying the Mexican employees much less money. The polluted air, full of nitrocellulose, was free to land wherever the wind blew it. He was able to get rid of some expensive labor, some of who had been there since his father ran the company and replace them with labor from Mexico for almost nothing. So, who is at fault? Should we just allow many cubic tons of pollution to pour out of exhausts because it costs the millionaire owners too much, or should be blame the agencies who are trying to keep the air cleaner. I know that there is corruption in some agencies, there is in any organization of humans. I think that it is a balance that we just have to keep trying to have between safe air, safe roads, safe schools, etc. etc. We have to give to get and be able to breathe and leave the air cleaner for our children.
That's a separate kind of abuse. One of my neighbors had chest pains and called 911 for paramedics. They sent an "emergency response" ambulance and... a ladder truck. I'd say easily half a million bucks worth of equipment, maybe more. No conceivable need for a ladder truck (or firemen, for that matter).
Why? so they can charge you for it, not because you need it or want it. Every time there's a fender bender, if there are injuries they send this ladder truck. And bill the "victims" for it. I have yet to see them even get out of the truck. I'd hate to think what the charges are for a HazMat response.
He got off easy, we get an ambulance and two fire trucks and a bill for them. Remember when our taxes were suppose to pay for ambulance/fire/police, taxes went up and now we pay for the services, got to love it..
Life, like politics, ain't beanbag. I don't want the rivers catching on fire either, but when you get right down to it that's preferable to having half the country on welfare and a twenty trillion dollar tax bill hanging over everybody's head. "The business of business is business". That's what America has always been about.
This country really has turned into a bunch of pussies, near as I can tell. The powers that be have crafted an extensive cradle to grave welfare state (corporate too) in exchange for votes, and do not believe in borders of any kind. This ends badly.
Life, like politics, ain't beanbag. I don't want the rivers catching on fire either, but when you get right down to it that's preferable to having half the country on welfare and a twenty trillion dollar tax bill hanging over everybody's head. "The business of business is business". That's what America has always been about.
This country really has turned into a bunch of pussies, near as I can tell. The powers that be have crafted an extensive cradle to grave welfare state (corporate too) in exchange for votes, and do not believe in borders of any kind. This ends badly.
More and more will end up on the welfare line as more jobs are lost but they will be so happy they have clean air and water to drink while waiting LOL.
02-17-2016, 07:53 PM
