LOL. Yeah, most people now days don't even know what it means to double clutch. Heck, most of the people now days can't even drive a stick. The automatic transmission has desicrated the truck. It has been deprived of it's civil liberties that guarantee it to be a utilitarian vehicle capable of large payloads, and hard dirty work. It has been stripped of its dignity, and forced into a life of servitude as a sissy la la. A direct insult to the word TRUCK.

 

You know what I like about this CAT motor? It doesn't take anything special to get it hooked up to the stock 53 instrumentation. Aside from the alternator rather than generator, the only thing i have to mess with is one wire. The wire that normally goes to the coil, will instead go to the fuel cut off solenoid, and voila it's wired. Everything else is pretty much senders for my vitals, and the starter. Nothing fancy, looks like it could of been stock, and I don't need 923,450,321 wired circuits going every which way three times around the equator and back.

 

Ok, time to bring back the Diesel article. Lots of recent questions, so I am hereby revitalizing the 48-60 diesel discussion. (the short version....bump to top)

 

Well since we are on the topic of diesels I have a question for those of you who have done some looking around at diesels. I got a 2005 Isuzu 4HK1TC "which is the turbo 4 cyl that Isuzu uses in their 14k/18k GVW NPR series of trucks" in a trade for some welding work I did. My intention is to use this engine trans combo in an F500/600 Ford I am looking to build after the 1959 project is done. I have everything off the frame/ engine wiring wise but the cab was burned to a crisp along with the box and I am in need of a wiring diagram or better yet a harness for the cab so I can make this engine run.

I have had no luck finding an NPR or a GMC W4500 around the seattle area in a scrap yard to get the wiring harness out of the cab along with the diagnostics plugs and so forth.

Anyone here know of a scap yard in your area that has a 2005 NPR/GMC W4500 that I could buy the complete harness including throttle assembly and plugs out of?

Cyrus

_____________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... HELL YEAH!!! What a trip!

 

Howdy,

I have done a lot of searching around in the WWA area for medium duty wrecking yards. There's just not a lot sources around here for some reason.

I was going to either use a 6BT/early Power Stroke or a 4-53T/6V-53T and bolt it to an automatic. (I may still do it!)

Automatic transmission choices are limited for the F-5/500/6/600 trucks since there's not very many transmissions out there with BOTH an over drive and an integral (tail mounted) parking brake. You need an OD trans because the highest axle ratio available for these old trucks is the 5.83:1-- 2 speed. If you use a direct drive trans you are left with a "screaming meemee" at even modest freeway speeds.....All the diesels want to turn 1700-2000 for cruising speeds......Even with the trans and axle I have with 9.00-20 tires I would still get about 2100 rpm at 60 mph in high range and OD..

(this is all dependent on which rear axle you use of course......If you use a much more modern axle you can get much higher gears.....but you're not going to use 5 lug "Budds" then either.... I bought rebuilt 5 lug BUDD wheels, new radial tires/tubes/flaps......(yes I know....I limited myself.....but on the outside the truck will "look" somewhat stock)

A good choice for an automatic trans is the the Ford E4OD/4R-100. (see my gallery) They can be built strong enough for any medium duty diesel and they have provisions for a parking brake on the back (mine came out of a diesel F-450....15,000 or so, GVW )

If you want to use a manual you can use the ZF S-542/547 which can use the same parking brake assy and are also used in the F-450 Super duty. They can be bolted directly to the early 6.9L/7.3L IHI & Power Stroke engines too.


I decided to use my 292 so, under the hood, it will look pretty much "55 model correct" but still have enough power to do what I want to do. (if it could do it with a 223 cu-in 6 it will be ok with a 292!!)


I leaned away from a diesel since they just cost too much to buy and rebuild. Since I'm restoring, I wanted the under hood area to "look right"......(very few people will notice the trans down there!)

I also could not find a "core" 6BT for under $2000......yes I know there's "deals" out there. good luck to you. (I have that much in my completely rebuilt, ported & balanced, 292!!)

Depending on the rear axle you use you'll have to make sure that you have a parking brake.....you don't want that thing rolling away and squashing the neighbor kid!!

There is a medium duty wrecking yard in Spokane I think. You might look in DEX or equivelent. There's also Southern California Truck-Van & 4x4 Parts down in LA near LAX.....google has the phone number.... They're a medium and heavy duty truck parts wrecking yard. lot of "Stuff" down there.

I think my F-600 would run pretty nice with the Isuzu 4 cyl engine. You'll need to gear it so it's not screaming down the road. That might be hard with the old Ford axles. also if you use a different rear axle you'll you'll have to figure out a way to make the front wheels tires the same size as the rear duals.

Old F-5/500/6/600s like 7.50/8.25-20's (I used 9.00-20's) my 9.00-20.s are almost right at 40" diameter. You'll need to find MUCH shorter tires for a more modern (higher ratio) axle.

Your rear wheels will not match the front in any case unless you put a different front axle under the truck......... (which will probably be ok) most people don't notice the difference.......

But if you're going to do that you might as well just put the Ford cab on the Isuzu frame!


Cheers,


Rick

 

Thanks for the reply Rick

I am not really concerned with original or a correct "look" I like the looks of the old trucks and have some modern parts I got in trade and would like to get the two together and see what happens.

The axles I have in mind are the 2.5 ton rockwell military axles and this rig will be a 4X4 built for whatever. Just one of those odd ideas I have rolling around in my head.

The Isuzu 4HK1TC I have is complete with automatic transmission and parking brake, first drive-line section and all the mounting brackets. I thought about getting the frame as well but the frame had been hot enough in the fire to bake the paint off of it. Mostly where the fuel tank and wood decking of the cube van had been. The rear axle had the rubber burned off the rims too so I was not too excited about trying to use the rear axle either, so I have an engine trans combo with about 45k miles on it waiting for a second chance.

What I need to make this combo work is a complete wiring diagram, which the dealers don't want to part with for this new of a truck or a harness for the cab. I have no problems with wiring but still need to know what wire is for what. All of the ECM wires for the trans and engine are intact

My 1959 and 1969 are both pretty much stock in looks and running gear. The 1969 has a Cummins 12 valve sitting on a pallet waiting it's turn at being rebuilt. I am still not sure which transmission the 69 will end up with as it is a 4X4. The 1959 is also a 4X4 and is in the middle of being restored and has been kept as close to stock as I can make it. The rear axle in that truck was replaced with a 9" posi by my little brother. He used to own the truck but has since passed away in a car accident and I am finishing his dream.

Cyrus

_____________________
My Grandpa told me once that you have to learn by the mistakes of others because you will NOT live long enough to make them all yourself.

 

hey joe what are the specs on a 1160 cat.

 

Which specs you after?

 

power ratings hp and torque just curious thats a big *** engine!

 

It's a naturally aspirated V-8. The HP is rated at 210 BHP. I have conflicting info on the torque though. One rating I found was 600 something, and another was 500 something. So I am not sure what the torque rating is for sure. I know that it is a CAT reman motor though, so it should last a while. It is physically not much wider/longer than a typical full dressed big block. It is considerably taller though. It fits in the engine bay perfectly, and I have about 1/2" of clearance between the firewall and the rear most portion of the engine, and I have about an inch of cleareance between the floor board and the top of the tranny. I have about 3/4" of clearance between the very front most edge of the air compressor and the fattest part of the radiator top tank. I have seen one of these installed in a 64 F-350 4x4 as well, but it had an Allison auto trans. With the 5 speed main trans, and the 4 speed aux (which I found out is 2 under, 1 direct, and 1 over drives), I should be able to keep the engine in its sweet spot pretty much all the time.

 

did they offer a turbocharged version, can one be easily added. Its not like you need it but while your going overkill it couldnt hurt. how about an engine brake I know some cats have their own compression release system? is your 5th on your main box an OD or direct? double over would be pretty damn sweet.

 

I am not sure as to the 5th gear on the tranny. The 3208 (which is the newer version of the 1160) had a turbo and non-turbo version. I could probably adapt a turbo to this, but I would have to do some engineering, since it is a straight compression ignition engine, not having any glow plugs, or air intake heater to aid in starting. It has a butt load of compression, and I think that I would be popping heads or something if I were to boost it. It doesn't have any kind of compression release, nor any kind of engine brake. I looked at several other trucks while trying to find the right chassis for this project, and almost picked up an 84 LT-8000 tractor that was on air ride, but it had a Detroit and it would of required extensive fire wall work to clear the supercharger and stuff. I opted for this truck and engine because of the simplicity of the set up, it looked way more vintage, and could be taken more seriously as the "what if" Ford would of used a diesel in the Big Jobs. I opted for this to make it look more plausably authentic. I wanted it to look like it "could have" come from Ford this way. The end result will be a very stock looking truck, except for the addition of twin Chrome stacks, and eventually full tandem aluminum fenders for the rear. I will be maintaining the stock running boards, stock sheet metal, and all the stock interior adornments. I even used the stock column so that I could keep the stock Big Job 20" steering wheel. The bigget exception is that the front suspension is going to be altered, and instead of the 14K front end, I am down grading to the 10K, and it will be getting taken out of the nose bleed section. I am still looking for an affordable air ride rear frame section too. I may eventually continue with the use of a sleeper, but for now, i just want to build the truck and get it working, so that I can enjoy it before I get all crazy and start really going custom.

 

I remember a magazine several years ago (one of the pickup mags etc..) showing a 70 or 80's 2 wheel drive F350 with a 3208 and twin turbochargers installed. It too had an Allison trans. (AT540) They called it a "Stump Puller" I think they said it dyno'ed 350 rear wheel HP.

The 3208s all were/are direct injection engines. (which usually don't require heated intakes or glow plugs..... Even newer direct injection diesels now have induction heaters/glow plugs not to AID starting, but to reduce /eliminate start up smoke to meet EPA requirements......

According to all I could find out about the 1160 the main difference (3208/1160) is the inline injection pump.




The compression ratio of the 3208 and 1160 are not all that high (my 6.5L GM diesel is something like 21:1and it's turbocharged) THe N/A comp ratio appears to be something less than 18:1, so you could easily turbo them. Cat took it all the way down to 15.5:1 for the 435hp marine version....but they're running a LOT of boost with (water cooled) after cooling.


I just LOVE the sound of a 3208! (but I like the sound of a "D-troit" better!!)

Your truck when it's done will be unique indeed! take lots'a pictures!!

 

Thanks for the info. I've been playing heck trying to find good info on it. If the compression ratio you're showing, is indeed the case, then I do have a Ford 6 cyl. diesel in the back of my dodge that still has the turbo on it. I may remove it and try installing it. The only thing though, since the info you showed is for marine applications, is that the same for the land use engines? I know that it doesn't take many revolutions to get it started. It sat for about 18 months before I bought it. They hooked up a jumper box to the truck, and turned it over about 10 full revs before she puffed. They hit it again and she lit up on about the 3rd revolution. I figure, that in January in central Oreogn, and a truck that's been sitting for over a year, and then she lites up like that, then that's worth every bit of the $1000 I paid for it. Plus, it fits the build flawlessly, and I can have the only Caterpillar powered pre-60 F-Series (until someone else builds one too anyhow), then awesome. I mean, so far, you wouldn't know this wasn't stock. It all fits perfectly in the engine compartment. I have to rework the brackets, or the inner fenders to fit them, but you can barely tell this isn't a stock set up. Even the tranny shift tower sits right where it did in the 53 chassis. I will have to enlarge the hole, because of the bigger size of the shift tower, but it will still look "correct", and only the people that "know" will know it didn't come this way. I agree, I do love the sound of an old diesel engine. I am kind of partial to an old Cummins though. The Detroit has that raw power sound too. Ah heck, they all sound real good, even the old Continentals, or Whites sound good.

 

Down in the Calif oil patch years ago a friend of mine bought an old well pulling truck and it had a 400hp Hall Scott 6cyl gas engine in it. He drove it home and I think he said it got something like 3 gallons to the mile!! This was in the 70's or 80's but he was still glad he didn't have to go far! He pulled the Hall Scott and put an inline GM DDA 6-71T in it and not only did it have far more pulling HP but it actually got about 6-8 mpg too!

All marine diesels get away with being able to develop more HP since they have a basically unlimited cooling capability (by comparison to "over-the-road" automotive).

You just don't have that with an air--liquid heat exchanger (radiator) That's the main cooling limitation for any vehicle engine. Also when you supercharge (exhaust or direct drive) any engine the super charger of course compresses the air and heats it in the process.

If you don't use an intercooler the hotter induction air will result in higher exhaust temps.

Intercooling will allow a denser(cooler) air charge which allows more fuel to be burned per cycle.......more HP.

All the new trucks use air-air intercoolers. Marine engines use water to air intercoolers that work FAR better. You can REALLY pump up a marine engine where you just cannot do it in an automotive application.