A few members, I won't mantion any specific names, we all know who we are, have been having a debate over performance products and the gains we get from them. I have tried to take a step back from this and compose some of my thoughts regarding this subject. My stance on this is well known, but if you have not read any of my posts I beleive in the most common, basic, and proven methods for gaining a little extra performance from my vehicles (intake, exhaust, and chip or programmer).

Some of you don't beleive in the gains that K & N or any of the other cold air intake manufacturers and the gains claimed by any of the performance exhaust manufactures claim. I know that when I purchased my K & N FIPK kit included with the kit was a Dyno test data sheet. K & N list a 5.5HP gain from the kit I installed. A couple of you have vehimently argued this. Some manufacturers of performance parts only give an estimated percentage of possible gains while others, usualy the more established and long time players in the game give actual hard numbers.

For those of you who argue so vehemently against any and all rational thinking against these gains need to ask yourself some questions. If those gains were not real and actual gains, why would these companies give out hard data numbers setting themselves up for lawsuits regarding false advertising, deceptive trade practices, ect? Some of these companies, such as K & N do either have a legal department or legal aid on retainer in order to keep them from making mistakes like that and setting themselves up for legal action that would be the outcome if there products did not make the gains stated in there statistical data provided with the products. So to you nay sayers why would they do that? Why would a huge, well known company in the performance game risk the legal ramifications not to mention smearing there good name in the performance market by making false claims? or could it be that those products actually do what the claim to do?

Also I would like to add a quote from an interview with J. Bittle, the President and founder of JBA Headers. This interview is in the April 2006 issue of Off-Road Adventure Magazine.

"Adding a high performance exhaust, be it to a tow vehicle or a dirt truck, is one of the quickest and most cost-effective ways to achieve significantly more horsepower and torque. Typical performance gains with the addition of JBA headers on a fuel injected V-8 are anywhere from 10 to 25 horsepower, and similar numbers for torque. For V-6 applications, expect a gain from 10 to 15 horsepower. How much performance seen on an individual application depends on the upgrades already made."

That's another reputable performance manufacturer giving out some pretty hard numbers. I don't think Mr. Bittle has taken his company where he has by making false claims or deceiving his clientel. He got there by doing his homework, like many other manufacturers, and making and selling performance products that work.

So to you nay sayers, take your arguments and claims up with these guys, prove them wrong and win your millions. If you are so sure of your nay syaing claims and have the statistical data to back your claims up I am sure you can find an attourney who will take your case pro-bono for a percentage of your possible settlement. A little tid bit of advice though, your one alleged dyno test numbers from your buddy Billy-Joe-Bob's dyno won't hold up against all of the dyno tests and statistical data some of those comapies have through years of reaserch and test data that back up there hard numbers for performance gains on the products they make and have been making for many years.

 

I was not a part of that debate. I haven't done any research on aftermarket performance parts, since at this point I'm simply interested in keeping my truck running well. As such, I really can't form a solid opinion on the claims made about the parts.

But, I don't think that this debate is going to change anyone's mind. Those who believe the parts are worth it, will continue to believe that. Those who believe they are not, will continue to believe that.

I think it is time to let this subject rest...

 

Weather or not the product is worth the cost, that is up to the individual. We all have to live within' our means and I would not knock anyone for that. The debate you were not part of was over certain members claiming that the performance claims from products by K & N and other cold air intake manufacturers, and performance gain claims by companies like Borla or JBA, and other performance exhaust manufacturer companies were false. They claimed that doing basic intake and exhaust modicications did not make any gains in horsepower and torque. The nay sayers did not beleive in the gains from these products or the combination of these products and a computer programmer or chip. I don't know if these guys had a bad expeince or are just hell bent against making any modifications and think we should all keep are trucks bone stock.

Anyway that's what the debate is over, I don't agree with the nay sayers, the mods we argued over are the most very basic and common modifications done worldwide on all kinds of vehicles for all difrent types of applications, and anyone, who knows anything about performance knows that you start by making the vehicle breath easier, you start with the intake and exhaust and then you can either continue from there or leave it at that, but that is generally where you start at -

 

I'm interested in this debate 'cause I have my doubts about some of the claims made by the big companies but I'm going to keep my mouth shut for the time beings.

 

I'm well aware of what the debate is over. I stand by what I said.

 

Let's just dig this one up once again why don't we? Not like it's been beaten beyond all recognition or anything.

What would be very very cool was if we had a Ranger we could all get together and add stuff onto. Now financially that doesn't make sense...nobody's going to give us a Ranger just to play with, either lol.

The feel factor is there on the exhaust, makes it seem as if I have a couple of ponies from it, but I have no real proof. Flowmaster didn't see it fit to include a dyno sheet with their muffler...
As for this "whoosh" sound we all talked about by cutting holes in the stock air box, I don't hear it...how big did you guys cut the holes? I put five one-inch-diameter holes in the bottom half of the box (one on the side, one on the front, and two on the other side, and one in the back) and can't hear it at all. Other than letting the engine idling, popping the hood, and then listening. Bigger holes? Does the exhaust just drain it out when I add a little gas?

Waves I won't lie, I can't believe you brought this up once again. Nobody's opinion is going to change, but it sure should be fun to watch!

RP
Zach

 

While healthy converstaion and debates can be good and enjoyable..........

Some people just don't have brains enough not to make waves and can't "let it go" . They instead, in an attempt to win people over, prefer personal attacks via the internet (after all, it's faceless and pretty easy), including attacks on others personal property and other aspects of their "opponent/enemy". Trying to bring others down in an attempt to bring oneself up when there is no nothing else at hand. The immature, childish behavior is something most mature adults prefer to not listen to; there are far more important things in life to concern onself with .

 

I't's not so much about changing someones opinion, I don't care that some people don't like modifications, but there are long standing, proven methods of gaining performance and horsepower, it's not something I or anybody on this board made up, it's proven methods used all over the world in all kinds of difrent applications, and I don't think it even should be a topic of debate, but some people can't seem to beleive that certain tried and true methods do exactly what they claim, a small gain. Again weather or not it's worth the cost, that's up to the individual.

 

Bob Ayers - this ones for you.

The facts, statistical data, engine experts, and results all prove what I have been saying is true. You don't have any of that to back up your claims. Get back to me when you have all that to back up your false claims. I won't hold my breath -

 

He sent me a link with proof that K&N air filters aren't worth the money.....and I can tell from the mileage I'm getting and over all vehicle performance that it's true.

 

And for every one of those there seems to be far more who say they are, try stopping by any local track on a friday or saturday night and ask those guys, even better take a look under the hood. In the other thread that got locked I pointed out that if you intsalled one and were expecting to suddenly have your head pinned to the seat, that's un-realistic, you not going to get this huge power gain from it, a little snappier throttle response, realistic, the 5.5 HP from the dyno test sheet from K & N - realsitic. Also, as we have stated time and again, just this one mod is not going to make a big and noticable difrence, but this mod, combined with a better exhaust or headers, and a chip or programmer will. A K & N is not going to adversly affect your gas milage, I tend to beleive it has more to do with your driving style. I haven't had an increase or decrease I get the same 17 to 19 on the highway and 12 to 15 in town that I got before I did FIPK kit and swap to a more free flowing muffler. One test, done one your friends dyno is not proof, just like I would not consider just my word as proof, but there is alot of data, proof, statistics, racers, off-roaders, street tuners, you name it that would agree with and prove my case, then there are three guys on this board who argue that. Please, spare me -

 

While healthy converstaion and debates can be good and enjoyable..........

Some people just don't have brains enough not to make waves and can't "let it go" . They instead, in an attempt to win people over, prefer personal attacks via the internet (after all, it's faceless and pretty easy), including attacks on others personal property and other aspects of their "opponent/enemy". Included is making allegations of others having made comments that don't exist (ie, "don't believe in bolt on mods") when such comment has not been made. Trying to bring others down in an attempt to bring oneself up when there is no nothing else at hand. The immature, childish behavior is something most mature adults prefer to not listen to; there are far more important things in life to concern onself with .

 

Waves...let it go. You started this again because what, you didn't get enough out of the last one? This is ridiculous. The bolt on modifications provide little statistical (read:dyno) and unnoticeable physical performance (read:more push). You can hear an exhaust and intake, woohoo. Who cares? For the money you would WASTE on an intake you could be saving for a supercharger or better yet a crate 302. Nobody said there weren't any gains. Everybody said the gains were insignificant individually.

 

CB - If I called you a name, or offended you, or anyone for that matter, that was not my intent. This has been a rather heated topic, to say the least. Saying that, I also do think this is grade-school level performance stuff at best, we are talking about the very most basic performance mods that do work, not some snake oil, tornado gimick.

 

Just keep this one nice guys...

On edit: I thought I would add.
Technical information is productive, attacking people personally isn't.