Around here I can buy E85 (85% ethanol 15% gasoline) for $1.85/gal. Regular gas is currently at $2.57 here. Has anyone tried to run on this stuff or convert their trucks to run on it? What all would need to be changed, fuel tank, fuel pump, carb? I have experimented with it a little. I have run 50% E85 and 50% regular gas with no problems. It gives me a little more power and a little less economy. I have heard of people running E85 in newer cars with electric pumps in the tank and the pumps die due to lack of lubrication. My next experiment will be to run 100% E85 in one of my trucks that is on its last leg any ways and see if any parts wear out from the E85.

 

Hey! I havent done it myself, but i've looked into running ethanol. You need to re-jet your carburator so you dont starve the engine for fuel. You will burn more ethanol than gas cause it has a higher water content. I dont know anything about the fuel pump issue, but i have heard that ethanol will eat certain carburator floats. Good luck!! somthing really needs to happen about the fuel prices.

 

Main things to be concerned with is any rubber or plastic will be damaged from the alcohol. I'm sure you have been running 10% for some time, so you may have already rebuilt your carb, so it should be fine, and the fuel pump likely as well. Rubber fuel lines will have troubgles, you need them replaced wiht more modern ones that have the alcohol resistant linings in them. As mentioned, rejetting would be needed to run it continuous. You may be better served to run a little less concentrated, like you did, and leave it at that until you are ready to dedicate it to E85. Then, you would be best served by raising the compression in your motor, and setting the carb for running it specifically.

 

I'm also interested in info about converting our old engines to E85. My dad works for Valero and has been telling me that they are expanding E85 into more areas.

Don't you have to replace all of the rubber and gaskets from the fuel tank to the engine? What about the metals? Will the engine block, fuel tank, etc work with E85?

EDIT: Posted right after post above was posted so sorry if I asked a question that was just answered.

 

I haven't had any issues with the galvanized tanks, or the paper gaskets. Haven't had much for issues with the carbs either, but haven't run E85 through anything older than 83. Haven't had any of the problems that are supposed to come with use of ethanol, but I won't say they don't happen, just that I personally haven't as yet experienced them. The block will be unaffected, as well as pistons. The burn is cleaner, so wear and particulates are reduced. If you were to build specific for E85, the raise in compression capitalizes on the hihger octane, you can get up to around 12:1 and run fine, but as stated, need to put a bit more fuel in. Timing can also be turned up a bit, due to the better octane as well. I haven't seen any trouble with aluminum at all, rather the carb I replaced due to the choke linkage breaking off was as clean as the day it was built. I have read that magnesium and ethanol don't get along, where it is required for use with methanol, so you have to pay attention to the alcohol parts, as aluminum and methanol don't go well together. There are some that have researched this harder than I have, and already geared toward building E85 specific systems. Discussion about this is common in the alternative fuels forum. There are plenty that will shoot the ideas down, but it is good to have both viewpoints do you can make you best decision. In the end, do your research and make your own decision.

 

This is the kind of info Im looking for. Real world testing not just nay-sayers who are against this stuff. I have never had any trouble running 10% in the 14 years Ive been driving. And I havent had any trouble running a 50/50 mix other than 10-20 fewer miles less range per tank. Plus the higher octane gives a little more power. Right now Im tossing around the idea of building a 460 for my 79 F-150 2wd (which has a factory 460). Im leaning towards 12:1 compression and advancing the timing a little plus while Im in there I will replace the rubber fuel lines and vacuum line since they are old any ways. Right now Im gonna run 100% E85 to see if anything fails since it will all be replaced with upgraded parts any way. The down side is I dont put too many miles on this truck but on the other hand I may find out if moisture becomes a problem. I will update from time to time with what happens and Im open for more suggestions on rebuilding my 460.

 

I have done real world testing on many different vehicles with varied results, most positive, but some negative as well. For whatever the reason, GM systems seem to respond the best. I haven't had any Ford gassers to run, but my sister runs an Escort, on her second, the first one did real well on it, the second not quite as good, but not real bad either. Had a friend tell me he lost alittle mileage on his Taurus, other than that was fine. My Plymouth Voyager started hard on it, ran fine otherwise, and really lost mileage. My mother has an 02 Le Sabre, and it runs fine on it, no codes , no loss of mileage. Only time it threw an emissions code was when we filled in Idaho, where they use potatoes for the feedstock. These are simply my results, there are those who will say they have seen damage from doing those, I haven't, but I'm sure there is likely more to the story there than is being told. Pretty much alway is...

 

I wonder what affect the different compression ratios have? Maybe the computers/sensors dont compensate as well between the manufacturers?
Fellro-Thats good to know there were no major or catastophic problems like some warn about. Was this running 100% E85?

 

Paper gaskets and head gaskets won't be hurt. Rubber hoses need to be replaced like fellro says, I think you can get the CPVC hose from Jeggs. A newer mechanical fuel pump may not have problems but then it might with higher alcohol concentrations and you don't want a crankcase full of whatever. Replace the mechanical pump with an electric pump made for alcohol and gas fuels. You can find them listed in Jeggs etc. Your carb needs to be re-jetted to keep from having your pistons and valves melt from lean mixtures, but if you do you will need to burn E85 exclusively or be way rich with gas. Maybe there is a way to throttle a spray bar from a NO2 setup to work with a standard jet carb??? Newer fuel tanks are coated to help resist corrosion. You may be able to get a replacement poly tank or take your chances with the steel tank for a while and just run big parallel plastic fuel filters to catch any rust. Stainless fuel line is available or again you can take your chances until you can get it replaced.

You may want to get one of those aftermarket air-fuel mixture sensors that work with an O2 sensor to tune your system and keep an eye on the mix. A dash mounted timing control may help also. You could also try using a feedback carb and designing your own variable dwell solenoid driver to use the feedback system and also re-jet the carb.

Computerized vehicles work way better for this than non feedback carbs because there is some O2 sensor feedback but then if they are not running in feedback mode it is probably as bad as a dumb carb.

Depending on the fuel maps and the sizing of the injectors, pressures pump size, line size, regulators, etc, computer cars respond differently. It takes more fuel volume capacity to run alcohol mixes. Flex fuel vehicles have a mix ratio sensor, proper fuel and ignition maps, and larger capacity fuel systems.

 

I was also considering addin an O2 sensor with the air/fuel gauge for my older truck. Anyone know if stoicometric (if I spelled that right) is the same for gas and E85? Dubble fuel filters make sense to me since alchohol attracts moisture and thus rust becomes a problem. Perhaps adding "HEET" would help keep moisture out while sitting for long periods?

 

I don't know what the sensor will read, the info is probably available with a Google. I would not use alcohol in anything that sits for long periods. 100% gas is good in that situation. Keep the alcohol fuels moving thru the tank by using it up.

Heet is just alcohol.

 

AFR gauges read stotch as 14.7:1.
stotch ratio for gas or E85 will read out as 14.7:1 on the gauge.
Go for stotch in cruise and 12-13 at WOT.

Get a good wide band AFR meter, narrow band meters are almost useless.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php

 

If stoich is the same for gas and E85 why would FFV's have different O2 sensors and have to recalibrate air/fuel mixtures? Perhaps I dont fully understand what stoichiometric means?

 

For fuel line you can run Fuel injection rated hose, it's available at napa and it will withstand ethonal (same hose that is now run on the newer vehicles that are flex fuel) it's expensive but you won't be putting chunks of rubber through your carb.
I agree with Eric on going to a electric fuel pump rated for use with gas and alchohol but if you want to run a mechanical do a little looking some of them are rated for use with alky also.
One other thing, maybe not on the engine your testing this one but after you rebuild it I would switch to a synthetic oil as they tolerate alchahol contamination better without breaking down, on a street engine there won't be much but even a little will start to break down the pure dino oils which isn't good.
Also on the filters, you might be able to get a water guard type filter like the diesels run that would help keep the moisture down, don't know on that one just a thought.
And having your dist recurved specifically for this application would be a definate benifit, try to find someone that is familar with higher alky content timing requirements to do it for you.
With higher compression and a good recurve on the dist I am guessing your going to have better power and done right probably not lose nearly as much economy as the nay sayers think.
One thing also for anyone considering it, the late 80s early 90s GM multec injectors had a problem with ethonal anyway so they might cause you problems, it was a common problem to replace those injectors when I worked for chevy, but I have heard of guys switching them out for the bosch injectors that don't have the issue. it had to do with what GM used as the insulating on the coils for the soilinoid

 

my gmc is e85 compatible.....the parts for the fuel system are rediculously expensive. from what i've heard, everything needs to be teflon coated because of how corrosive the e85 is. havent had a chance to run it yet because its not available in my area. i will forewarn anyone considering gm's new e85 vehicles. fuel system components are like 3x more expensive than a regular vehicle. gas fuel pump runs 200$, while the e85 compatible runs 600$. i haven't tried it yet, but i've heard mileage drops a little bit. i have run alcohol in briggs motors and the jetting has to be upped significantly.