Hi guys, I’m new around here and my name is George.<o ="">></o>>



I have always wanted a big vehicle and I’ve always looked
at the Suburban but I decided the other day to test drive<o =""></o> an Excursion just for the hell of it and I really liked it.<o =""> </o><o =""></o>I particularly like all the little convenience stuff in it<o =""></o> like the controls on the steering wheel and so on and the<o =""></o> really BIG console between the front seats. <o =""></o><o =""></o>

Anyway, I’m obviously interested in an Excursion and although<o =""></o> the purchase is anything from 3 to 12 months away, I thought I’d start researching it now so that I KNOW what I want when I’m ready to buy and I can just concentrate on looking for<o =""></o> exactly what I want. <o =""></o><o =""></o>
I was going to go with the V10 as I’m not a big Diesel fan<o =""></o> because of noise, vibration and so on and then we have the<o =""></o> issue of PREheating? Starting in the cold and so on.<o =""></o>

I love the fact that the diesel lasts longer but I don’t drive<o =""> </o> much, I don’t THINK I’ll be driving a lot in the future either<o =""> </o>so I’m not sure if I’ll need it. <o =""> </o> What is the difference between the V10 and the diesel in<o =""> </o>acceleration?<o =""></o>Anyway...I AM POSSIBLY thinking of getting a BIG travel trailer (40') which weighs in at around 8-9000 LBS and
although I don't even KNOW if I will be buying this trailer, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot and buy an SUV, DECIDE to get a big trailer and then realize that my SUV won't haul it.

I am still researching the Excursion and I just happened to see a brochure which says that the V10 will pull 11 000 lbs with the 4.30 axle but ONLY 9600 with the 3.73 axle which from what I understand is what most have (which would limit<o =""></o> me severely when looking for a used vehicle, won’t it?).

Can someone elaborate on the difference in the different axle<o =""> </o> ratios (please explain as if I were 12, I’m not too good at<o =""> </o>this stuff) and do you think I'll be alright with the 3.73 axle?

Also, is the 9600 or 11 000 towing weight available for TOWING? Ie, can you still fill the truck itself up with people and stuff, or is it TOTAL weight?

I know that I've read about payload or someone told me (I think it was a girl over at chevy.com) and she said that you can fill up the truck with the listed PAYLOAD (2600LB or something) and THEN it will still tow whatever is listed but that's NOT what it says in the brochure. I interpreted this as a TOTAL of 9600 or 11 000! Well, let me rephrase that. That's what it said in the GMC or CHEVY brochure about the Suburban. I've read all over the place that properly equipped, the chevy will pull the same as the excursion and all that and then I see the little * that says, total weight...

Should I go with a V10 or Diesel and finally, what will the<o =""> </o> V10 average in MPG?
I hear from 8-12 mpg for the V10 and 17-21 for the diesel but the diesel is also a lot more expensive to buy.

I might also think about moving up north in the future and although I don't know IF I will and WHEN it will be, a diesel that's hard to start in the winter might be a problem. I just hate to have to WAIT for things because I"m very impatient and I dont want a vehicle that needs to be preheated.

You see, I was going to get the V10 and the hell with the gas cost UNTIL I saw this thing about the towing and the axles.

I mean, the 5-10 grand extra the diesel will cost translates to a lot of money for gas. I PREFER gas engines and I will probably NOT buy the trailer but it was a thought and like I said, I would hate to decide to do it and realize this beast won't pull it.<o =""></o> Also, I would really appreciate thoughts about the differences<o =""> </o>between the X and the Suburban/Yukon XL (2500 and ¾ Ton of course)?<o ="">
Also, I KNOW this is a forum for Ford trucks but I would appreciate it if possible when giving me advice on the differences between the GM and Ford trucks if you could try to explain in a more impartial way. I AM leaning towards the X but it WOULD help me a lot if I got more impartial views/explanation.
</o>
I really wanted to get the 2005 Excursion Limited and I’ve seen that<o =""> </o>I can get them with real low mileage for around $30,000 which is fine<o =""> </o> with me.<o =""> </o>Also, any thoughts about the fact that it’s being discontinued? Will prices go up or down? Not that I care about resale value that much but I was just wondering? I’d like to get a vehicle I can keep<o =""> </o> for a good many years and do the stuff/modifications to it that I <o =""> </o> want so I should keep it at least 5 years. Thanks for any help<o ="">.</o>

George<o =""> </o>

 

Well George, you won't have any problem with cold weather starting with the diesel as long as the glow plugs and block heater work. My 2002 X with the 7.3 diesel on the coldest Wisconsin mornings starts right up with no problem on 3 hours of engine block heater(I have mine on a timer). As far as towing, the 11,000lb towing is just that, how much weight it will tow, regardless of how much you have in the vehicle. I tow a 30' travel trailer that weighs ~8800lbs, and when fully loaded the whole setup tips the scales at just under 17,000lbs. Hope this helps in your decision.

 

ExursionMan, thanks! It DOES.

Let me ask you something to clarify and again, I'm not too bright which is why.

In the old days, whether you had it hooked up to a heater or something or NOT, when you turn the diesel ignition key, you had to wait for that coil light to go off BEFORE you could start it. Is this the way it is today?

When you say engine heater? That means it's already there when you buy it and all you do is hook it up to an outlet or does it run on gas from the truck or what?
If so, could you say go to a hotel up north and just set the timer and it'll preheat?
Also, if you should forget to set this heater or for some reason decide to take the truck earlier, ie, BEFORE it preheats, are you screwed and can't start it?

I understand the diesels have no problems pulling anything but have you heard anything about the V10's?

What kind of mileage do you get AVERAGE on your diesel?

Thanks for the reply

George

 

Yes, you still have to wait for the coil light to go off before you start it, usually on mine no more than 15 to 20 seconds. If you buy a diesel in the northern climates, it comes with a 110 volt block heater. That means you need a source of electicity to plug into. I carry an extension cord with me so if I'm at the inlaws or a hotel and I can get close enough to a plug, I try to plug in. If not, and you want a warm truck, let it run for 5 or 6 minutes and it is blowing a little warm air already. V10's are ok for towing, but lack the hill pulling power and on-ramp ablility of the diesel. I average 14 to 16 mpg in the city to and from work and 17 to 18 on the highway(I have a lead foot). Towing gets around 10.5 to just over 11.

 

That's good mileage! Hell, I get 16.7 on my Isuzu Rodeo '99 from home to work which is only 12 miles and some lights!

I can live with numbers like that. Are you pretty sure about the numbers?

Like I said, I may not even buy a big trailer and I probably won't but still.

I dont' understand the part about it blowing for 5-6 mins.
Does that mean that you CAN start the engine EVEN if it's not heated but you have to let it WARM UP for 5-6 minutes?

Don't they have engine heaters that sit next to the engine and run on gas or something?

Bottom line then, I can't just jump in the vehicle and fire it up. 15-20 seconds minimum?

Thanks again

George

 

Try Webasto. They make a coolant heater that runs of the vehicle's fuel soruce. Looked at it a while ago. IF you don't have the truck plugged in and it is really cold out, you may have to cycle the key moer than once to let the glowplugs heat enough. Another problem if really cold is fuel gelling up although the HFCM takes care of heating the fuel with the key in the 'on' position. IMHO, I would get the diesel, but that's just me. The Excursion ended production September 28 05, but since then prices in Colorado haven't flucuated too much...good luck!

 

Mine started with it being 5 below and plugged in for 3 hrs. Glowed it twice. IOW, I turned it to run till the glow light goes off and then did it again for extra heat.

My Suburban with the 5.3 was ok on the flat lands with a 1 place enclosed ATV trailer. Took it up in the mountains of Utah on Scenic bypass 12 and at WOT I was doing 30 mph in 2nd gear. Talk about scary. Dad with his F350 7.3 Powerstroke was making probably enough power to carry his bed camper and a 30 foot trailer with 2 ATVs and probably could pull me and my truck.

 

You can find out everything by checking in the tow vehicle forum at RV.NET, but I'll try and give you a jump start.

V10:
With 3.73 gears, you are allowed to tow a maximum of 9600lbs.
With the 4.30, A maximum of 11000 lbs.

Diesel: (only offered with 3.73 gears)
You can tow a maximum of 11000 lbs.

Now the rest of the information

The tow weights above are calculated based on a stock standard vehicle, full of fuel, and with a 150lb driver. The weight that they base everything on is the BASE curb weight, published in some Ford paperwork.

Now, if you add anything more to the weight of the truck, such as factory or aftermarket options ore even if the driver is over 150lbs, you must deduct this extra weight from the maximum tow rate.

Example: dirver is 45lbs more than 150lbs, and you have 195 lbs of cargos, plus 2 kids and the wife adding another 300 lbs

So, 45 + 200+300 = 545 lbs.

Now, you take the listed towable weight of 9600lbs and subtract the above from it.

9600lbs - 545lbs = 9055lbs

9055 lbs would be the most you could tow with this scenario.

I made a post in RV.NET that described this problem for a lady that had no idea about it. Here is the LINK

IF you don't already have it, downoad this SALES BULLETIN it is for 2005, but all the info applies.

Get the Ford TOWING GUIDE

I wrote a comprehensive spreadsheet for Excel that calculates all the parameters for your tow vehicle and trailer. However, you will need to take your truck down to a scale and have each axle weighed. The spreadsheet is HERE This spreadsheet has been made as simple as I could make it, but it is still rather lengthy. I was wanteing to get a new trailer, and I wanted to be sure that I could tow it within Factory limits. It was intended to allow me to plug in parameters of my truck and trailer and get yes and no answers back.

The paperwork in the links abouve will provide all the base information on your truck that you will need to put in the spreadsheet.

Neve let someone else tell you that you will be fine towing something, espescially a brother in law(you know what I mean), a well meaning neighbor, or a trailer salesperson. They have no idea of the real capabilities of your truck, nor are they willing to calculate them.

I hope you find out that there is a method to the madness.

 

Towing 11,000lb, no problem. I do it.
Cold starting, also no problem. I leave my '05 diesel X Limited parked in snow for days at a time.

Just to add a vote of confidence as you consider your situation, I bought my X to tow a TPD triple axle with a car, spare parts and tools that max's out the trailer and combined weight limits of the X and I find it handles the work with no fuss. And I average 15mpg at 60-65mpg average (using GPS navigation.)

I have parked my X in snow (at 6000' at Squaw Valley) for several days at a time. I've had to dig it out just to open the driver door -- so I bought a remote starter (factory item) but haven't installed it yet (waiting for Spring now.) Sometimes I can park close enough to the house to use the block heater, sometimes, not so lucky. Either way, it will start first time, every time. You can tell just how cold the block is by how long the plugs take to warm and the light go out. Just be sure to let it idle up if it's that cold -- there's a lot of metal in a diesel engine and it all expands at different rates as it warms up, so letting it warm up slowly is an important precaution to keeping the engine healthy. And these things are expensive when they fail. They don't fail often, but once you're out of warranty, the last thing you want is problems with the power train.

Also, I'm in California and I bought an X in the last month of production with no way to order to spec, so it arrived with no block heater. It turns out all 6.0 diesels were built with the heater coil in the block, it's just a fifteen minute job to install the factory wiring (literally, just crawling underneath it in the driveway, it took a while to find the plug in the block, then a few minutes to zip tie the wiring to end up with the conventional electrical connector hanging out beside the fog light. The big, big advantage of the block heater is not easy starting (it starts easy every time) but to have everything warm and the cabin heat comes on almost straight away. That's a luxury when it's zero outside. Also, the transmission needs idle up time to warm up. So you should still let it idle even with the block heater so the transmission doesn't wear.

As for fuel at cold temperatures, I put a small bottle of STP into a full tank and have never had troubles even when the truck is left parked below 32 (sometimes below zero) for days. The last thing you want is gelled up fuel -- you're not going anywhere and you're not getting away cheaply to have someone tow it away, empty the tank and clean out the fuel lines and pump and filters and get it going again. Gruesome. So a $4 can of additive -- even if it might not get that cold -- is worth it.

Also, when you get a diesel X, check out the coolant filter kit and other upgrades and mods mentioned on this and the other Powerstroke and diesel performance sites.

Overall, it's a great, great vehicle if you need its capabilities. If you need the towing capacity and don't want a dedicated tow vehicle like a 250 Super Duty, then the X is in a class by itself. If you need to transport a lot of people (in my case, just two kids, but sometimes two grandparents and always two or three dogs, so I found a Tahoe/Suburban or Expedition to be just uncomfortably cramped with people nursing bags or the dogs slobbering and leaving hair on luggage etc.) then the X redeems itself on the first long trip. Keep in mind, you get 600 miles or more on a tank. Cruising at 80mph and getting 15-18mpg, I can get 800 miles on the trip meter before a reload, that takes advantage of sleeping passengers and let's me make a San Franciso to San Diego Zoo trip, plus some touring without worrying to find a gas station or pay high prices.

Hell, I could rave on for pages about the advantages of the X. I have a suspension upgrade (probably the five inch Donahoe all spring kit) and diff lockers (ARB front and rear) plus 20 or 22" wheels and 35" all terrain tires planned. I've already tinted the rear glass to limo black-out on top of top of the factory privacy tint, so the cabin stays cool and private. I put in a Husky slide-out drawer cargo box (gets the dogs up so they can see out the windows (and having rear glass that opens for the dogs is great) plus it keeps everything tidy and out of the way. Some floor mats and carpet.
Hellwig sways make it confident in the turns and at high speed. A front hidden-hitch receiver makes it easy to move the big trailer and the jet skis trailers with precision. A navigation and front DVD monitor with Serius S50 satellite radio help melt the long-haul miles away and reduce the tedium and boredom of long trips. I put on Blizzak snow tires and the X can claw its way through just about anything and track reliably at 50mph through snow where everyone else is in trouble and it can grind up the side of the mountain on the road to my ski cabin before they clear the roads. A bit of weight and some good snow tires makes for sure-footed handling. And a big roof box makes enough extra space that we don't have to leave anything behind. I also have a 1000W inverter for a/c power, a 4700lb utility winch on a two inch receiver for tree clearing and light recovery work. I think a TJM winch bar is likely too. I created some "LATCH" tie-downs using motorcycle triple-clamp straps and stainless steel yachting U-bolts. Why an '05 vehicle is allowed to get on the road without LATCH (mandated since about '02) makes no sense, but at least I have the two kids properly locked into the second row and one of the "peace of mind" things about the X is how you'd have to imagine it will protect its occupants in the event of at least a minor collision and boards like this have numerous first-person reports of accidents where their family was unharmed and the other vehicle showed a lot more damage.

So what's the downside to an Excursion aside from judgemental types being oh so sure you're a menace to society and the environment? I don't know. Well, it's hard to park in some situations. It rides rough until you upgrade the dampers to Bilsteins. It's basically a twenty year-old Ford truck, so the comfort and conveniences are pretty basic compared to a Kia or Hyundai at half the price. Then again, if you really want a back-up camera, satellite radio, Bluetooth cell phone connection, touch-screen navigation with voice guidance, these things are cool, sure and they're cheaper to buy after-market these days, so if you can afford a new Excursion, they're certainly not out of reach. On the Kia or the Lexus or whatever, if you want to tow 12,000lbs, there's no upgrade. : )

So I ask the question again, what's the downside to an Excursion? Maybe for the same dollars you could impress the neighbours or the other parents dropping off their kids at school. Maybe people wouldn't judge you as a red-neck oil-burning luddite if you bought a Toyota Hylander Hybrid. I guess. Hell, my daily driver is a Prius! Maybe I need to put one of those "my other car is a ... " plates on the back of the Excursion so I can sleep at night knowing the tree-huggers give me a half-credit. Life's too short. Just typing this post makes me feel like warming up the Excursion and going for a run off-road. Cheers,

 

I'll relate it as it was passed on to me by Doug Lewis of Ford Performance Specialists in GA:

The V10 (with the 4.30 gearing) and the diesel will feel very similar when not loaded, or when pulling a trailer under 6k lbs. or so. Both will pull their maximum weight just fine, however with the diesel you won't feel the load as much.

We bought the V10 after months of researching and calculating our needs. Our trailer is small, an 18' travel trailer, and weighs about 6k lbs. loaded. We'll only tow it a dozen or so times a year, and for less than 500 miles each trip at this point in our lives. We don't have the time to do long trips, although we'd love it. The combination of the trailer weight, frequency of towing, length of towing time, the vehicle's primary use (family hauler), fuel prices and fuel economy (gas is normally much less than diesel where I live), and of course vehicle price made my decision that the V10 was the best option for us.

Around here, for example, a similarly equipped diesel is typically about $4-5k more than a V10. It would take me years of ownership, or a ton of driving miles, to make up that cost in fuel savings. Living in RI, everything is a short commute, so we tend to not put a lot of miles on a vehicle.

Take the advice of the owners here, they helped my decision a lot, and also do your own study on what your needs are for the vehicle:

-Primary use
-Trailer weight, frequency of towing, and length of towing trip
-Amount of miles per year you'll put on the X
-Fuel prices in your area (I've found that diesel varies greatly depending on region)
-Cost of vehicle/cost of ownership (diesels do have less maintenance requirements than a gas engine)


Whatever engine you decide on, you're going to love the Excursion. I have an older Suburban, and have no complaints about it, however when comparing newer SUV's, the Excursion wins hands down.

Hope this helps, and welcome to the forums!