Ford vs The CompetitionTechnical discussion and comparison ONLY. Trolls will not be tolerated.
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You know, after all the hand-wringing on this site about issues with the 03-early '04 6.0 liter Powerstrokes, a lot of people act like the Cummins is a trouble-free motor. But after spending some time on the TDR site, I see that there are a lot of fuel pump, and "tapping noise" problems with the Cummins engine and gear rattle problems with the D-C 6 speed manual transmission. I wonder how all of those high-pressure external fuel lines are going to hold up over time...
When I was researching Diesel trucks in 04 (Ford and Dodge) the main Cummins issue was a dowel pin in the front part of the '01-'02 engine block that would work it's way out and destroy the engine. No DC recall on that! They were also going round and round about the mileage decrease from the 555 engine to the 605/610 engines. I recall endless mileage threads... hmmmmmmmmm.
On edit, I forgot the automatic trans failures, vibrating driveshafts, 5-speed manual with the 5th gear nut that backed itself out and shredded the tranny, engine oil vent run in front of the radiator that sprayed oil onto the front of the radiator which then caked with dirt.
Sooo... are you saying Cummins Track record is false? or the Powerstroke has equal or less problems per 100 as the Cummins?
What are you actually saying?
Easy there tough guy-
I'm actually saying that while it may at times feel as though only the 6.0 had problems, the fact of the matter is that the Cummins also has some problems.
The "problems per 100" is not something I raised but seems to be something you are trying to ascribe to me. Considering that I doubt either one of us has access to accurate numbers, we have no way of knowing which has fewer reported problems. And even if we did, differences in use and application would make a comparison difficult- i.e., PSD applications in different Ford GVW ranges than D-C, different ratios of trucks working at capacity versus trucks turned into buggies, ratio of trucks modified versus stock. All of the above would affect engine lifespan within the same product and make comparision difficult.
I suspect the best way to compare engines is when both are in the same application in the same fleet. We run both engines, but from different years and in different applications.
That said, the question of which is "best" is not something I am interested in debating. If we start that, some guy will chime in about how his 6.2 GM is the best pulling, most reliable, most efficient and best looking engine ever.
My point is that none of these engines are trouble free and while many folks have been down on 6.0, the competition's engines and drivetrain seem to have their share of problems as well.
For those of us who want to buy new trucks before Tier II comes in, it is important to remember that while we read all about International's '03-'04 6.0 problems here, we can easily forget that the Cummins engine and the new Mercedes G65 have their share of problems as well. Those problems combined with my desire to support the Ford workers in US plants rather than the out-of-country Daimler workers makes the decision between trucks easy for me.
PS: Thanks Galizien for covering my back on that other thread. Those guys were fierce!
Last edited by mschultz; 03-04-2006 at 01:46 AM.
Reason: second thought
The dodge challenger thread I think, or one of the locked ones.
As far as the cummins/powerstroke debate, how long has the 5.9 been out for cummins perfect (or improve on) and how long has the 6.0 powerstroke been out? Imagine if ford was able to continue evolving the 7.3 like cummins has for so long.
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