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  #1  
Old 03-03-2006, 03:41 PM
scrapperdan scrapperdan is offline
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Bias....

There is no bias people, the Japanese build better vehicles by a long shot. GM and Ford (I dont mention Dodge, they are owned by Germans) have long since forgotten how to build vehicles. At one point in the mid 90s I thought that both companies were making great strides, now that is not the case. They are doing better but have still not gotten there. I dont care about the stories for whose Ford or GM product lasted such and such miles, fact is as a rule both companies currently build garbage. I know that Honda, Toyota and Nissan are not perfect, but go get in a 1985 Toyota that has been marginally cared for and I guarantee it will be in better material shape than that of a 1998 Ford or GM. I own a 1973 F-100 and 1993 Escort and a 1998 Grand Am. Not one of this vehicles is better than the same year foreign car, with the exception of the F-100, which did not really have competition back then from foreigners. Older american cars really are good vehicles, their modern counterparts are not, which is why these companies are crumbling. The only reason, and I have heard this from people, that foreign fullsize pickups dont take over the market is because with the exception of Harley, there is no more Red, White and Blue segment in vehicle sales.
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Old 03-03-2006, 03:49 PM
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That is your opinion. Here is mine:

Click the image to open in full size.

Thank you very much.
  #3  
Old 03-03-2006, 03:51 PM
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I hope a moderater comes in and shuts this down before it gets started. You just wrote a bunch of hersay and personal opinion and no facts and your trying to tell the rest of us on a FORD ENTHUSIASTS site that there is no baisness. The post above is nothing more than garbage and has TROLL, TROLL, TROLL, TROLL, TROLL, written all over it. I have no more comment on this since it'll be nothing more than a waste of time!!
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2006, 03:56 PM
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i don't know where you call home, but don't go looking for 80's and early 90's Japanese cars here in central jersey. cause the only place you will find them is in the junk yards(maybe). or in someones garage cause they are afraid to drive them.
we call them Japanese scrap here cause thats what they are. the ones in the scrap yards look like swiss cheese. on the other hand, there is no lack of 70's, 80's, and 90's ford, chevy, and dodge cars playing demo derby with the jap cars every day, and the domestics win and drive away while the new jap junk is on its way to the insurance yards to be sold for parts. not trying to start a flaming war, just saying it the way it is.
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Old 03-03-2006, 03:57 PM
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It's obvious Scrapper Dan likes to scrap. He praises Japanese cars but doesn't even own one. Who's the idiot?
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2006, 04:09 PM
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I dont know why I am going to reply, just read the magizines like Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Consumer Reports. There is opinion, that is the buying publics' opinion. I have owned Japanese cars, and they were great cars. For a quick example, I want all you naysayers to go to Kelley Blue Book and price a Civic, Corolla, Sentra, Focus, Neon and Sunfire from say 2000. Be fair and you will see a huge price difference (relative), that is because of quality both real and I will admit to some extent imagined. The same thing appears in the compact truck market. I am a car guy to the hilt and I would love it if the American manufacturers could do better, but they aren't.
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Old 03-03-2006, 04:17 PM
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Go back under your bridge, troll.
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Old 03-03-2006, 04:18 PM
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Thats because the buying public is dumb enough to pay a priemum for the foreign cars when it new (the fault of consumer reports and likewise), it had better be worth more when used since it cost thousands more when new. For the price of a nice toyota camery or Honda Accord I could drive a Grandprix GTP (which blows the other two out of the water), boy thats a tough decision or I could save 5 grand and buy a nicer larger taurus that gets just as good of mileage and will last just as long with less maintenence (ie, timing belts and tapets)!! yep or I could buy a Titan to replace my superduty that I gross over 17k lbs with my boat and camper hooked up, then again I'd have to buy a new one every year to compensate for the parts failors in trying to do so, oh thats right no foriegner builds a real truck yet, guess I'll have to drive my 7000lb Crew Cab 325hp 425ftlb torque V10 that gets minmally less mielage than a 4500lb torqueless Nisan or Toyota, boy I just don't know how to cope with it!!!
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Old 03-03-2006, 04:22 PM
scrapperdan scrapperdan is offline
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I did the numbers for you....Ford:4875 Dodge:4630 Chevy:4700 Toy:5870 Nissan:6720 Honda:7290. These are all mid-level automatic cars from 2000 with 60000 miles on them. Even if you take the lowest (Toy) and the Highest(Ford) there is a difference of 21%. No...car value is not a direct indicator of how reliable a car is, but its resale and the value it loses over time are excellent indicators of this reliability.
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Old 03-03-2006, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapperdan
I did the numbers for you....Ford:4875 Dodge:4630 Chevy:4700 Toy:5870 Nissan:6720 Honda:7290. These are all mid-level automatic cars from 2000 with 60000 miles on them. Even if you take the lowest (Toy) and the Highest(Ford) there is a difference of 21%. No...car value is not a direct indicator of how reliable a car is, but its resale and the value it loses over time are excellent indicators of this reliability.
Seriously, if anyone pays any of those prices for any of those cars they are mentally challenged.

Seriously, I would like to see an 85 Japanexe car around here, as none currenly exist. what good is a good drivetrain when the rest of the car falls apart around it?
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Old 03-03-2006, 04:46 PM
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C'mon guys.......relax. Scrapperdan is just trying to get a rise out of you guys to see how many people he can **** off. No one on this site is seriously going to unilaterally bang the drum for foreign automakers.....BUT...just to put this into perspective, and Scrapperdan was kind enough to throw in that a better resale does not equate a better product. THE JAPANESE AUTOMAKERS ARE THROWING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THE MAGAZINES (Car & Driver, Motor Trend, et al) TO GIVE THEM BETTER PRESS AND TO INFLUENCE CAR BUYING. For anyone that thinks that this is conspiracy theory nonsense, the same modus operandi was used by Japanese automakers and other manufacturers to influence government officials reference trade laws, etc. in the early 90s. And it is NOT illegal to pay private magazine editors, etc. money to give them good press or a faulty "reliability" ranking (conversely, it's not illegal to receive such money). All it is is money, and if millions of people are influenced to buy Japanese because of this, then it was a good investment. See the latest rankings? Do people really believe that Japanese cars are so good that they utterly dominated the top 20 vehicles? Get real.

All you have to do is drive or own one (I have) and keep in touch with other people who do (I could tell you horror stories from a Camry owner who's a good friend of mine, but I guess anecdotal evidence isn't really "research"...).

Best regards and let's not get nasty to Scrapperdan....he's just having fun with us Ford freaks.

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Last edited by IB Tim; 03-04-2006 at 06:16 AM.
  #12  
Old 03-03-2006, 05:41 PM
okst1 okst1 is offline
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there are two problems with scrappers argument on price:
1) he fails to list the original cost
2) he fails to list cost of ownership as in maintenance and repair

the total cost of ownership is what is important-nothing else matters. what's the bottom line.
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  #13  
Old 03-03-2006, 09:05 PM
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I think scrapper makes some good points. Aside from blaming other people, how elsel do you account for the fact that Ford and GM (Dodge is German, get over it) are losing sales in every segment? How do you explain the rush to use "Toyota style" manufacturing and assembly practices? And if that new Toyota is built in the US and the Dodge is built in Mexico, which one is more "American"?

Points for Scrapper.

-Mike
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Old 03-03-2006, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okst1
there are two problems with scrappers argument on price:
1) he fails to list the original cost
2) he fails to list cost of ownership as in maintenance and repair

the total cost of ownership is what is important-nothing else matters. what's the bottom line.

I hate to say this but,,, my bet is that if scraper gave you those numbers, Ford cars would not come out looking so good. Sure, they may be cheap to buy with factory cash rebates, but they still depreciate much faster than the equivilant product from Toyota, Nissan etc.

-Mike
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Old 03-03-2006, 09:37 PM
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IMO,

Domestic trucks are quality, always have been and always will be. They are overbuilt, cheap to maintain and POWERFUL.

Domestic cars on the otherhand, are junk. Aside from the heavier domestic cars like the late and great caprice/impala SS (96 and under) Crown victoria, Grand Marquis, The new Chrysler LX platform cars (charger, 300 etc) Lincoln towncar, LS, GTO, possibly the newer larger Pontiac's, Larger Buicks.

Domestics that lag FAR behind Imports:

Any 60 degree V6 GM, Taurus's, Escorts, Intrepids, Sebrings, Cavaliers, Mercury Mystic, Contour, etc etc.

IMO these Domestics have absolutly no value over an Accord, Camry, Civic, Jetta etc.
Old 03-03-2006, 09:37 PM
 
 
 
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