I know about churches, I haul lots of our kids around to church functions.

The Roadmaster and the sway bar are two very different methods and are actually made to do two different things, with the Roadmaster sorta doing what the sway bar does, but through a different mechaism. A sway bar equalized the forces on one side of a turning vehicle by transferring that weight to the other side where the sway bar is connected. It won't help carry weight, it's just made to control sway. The Roadmaster operates like an overload spring, only engaging when weight is applied on the leaf spring. The Roadmaster hooks over the axle and ends up on the rear spring eye. It prevents the rear half of the leaf from too much bend so as a matter of circumstance it also may help prevent some body roll. But a dedicated sway bar is your best bet, an 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" works best for these big vans. Any stiffer and the rear end will break loose around corners rather than absorb some of the cornering forces. Racers will 'tune' their suspension by increasing or decreasing roll rate with the sway bars to loosen up, or tighten up the front or rear end.

I have a 1 1/4" sway bar and will add a rear wheel spacer soon. But my plan is to lower the E350 3" in the front and 5" in the rear in addition to my sway bar. I was also thinking of using limiting straps on the suspension. If you watch the roll over videos you see the vans roll when made to go from one extreme transition to another. The springs actually unload one side of the body after transitioning from left to right and the heavt duty springs help push the van over. Limiting straps like the off road guys use will help prevent this, as will sway bars. A 2" wider stance in the rear and wider, low profile tires will do the same.

Of course after I add the supercharger all bets are off,,,,, heh heh,,,

 

When I watched the video, I saw that the dual-wheel van did NOT turn the same radius as when it was a single wheel van........... I'm not saying that the dual wheels don't help but if you have a van with un-seatbelted passengers that are flung to the side of the van in a panic maneuver, all of that force will just expedite the van in rolling over. I am under the impression that in most of these van roll-overs, the passengers were not wearing seat belts.................watch the video and see for yourself. Also, there is no indication of speed (same speed or different?) of the two vans either.........Back to the original problem of the swaying van, Sway bars are definitely the way to go in addition to having the right tires and pressure. Any worn suspension parts on this vehicle?

 

Excuse me? My first vehicle was an 03 15 passenger van with the 7.3L and I had NO problems driving it, even fully loaded(and overloaded once or twice).

 

Last week we drove 700 miles in a E250 hi-top conversion, first half on a VERY windy day. 2005 chassis with only 22,000 miles on it, 8 passengers, 2 days luggage for each, so only 100 lbs. behind the rear seat. Moderate load for that size chassis.

It was all over the road, too, because it's like driving a barn door. Didn't check tire pressures, etc. because it was a rental, but with that mileage I wouldn't expect major suspension or steering problems. Mostly it felt like it was windy, just as you'd expect. So if you check all the obvious things everyone has suggested, you're probably left with the normal crosswind sensitivity of a tall vehicle.

As for the "danger" of big vans, once you get past the hype, they have HALF the death rate of minivans and sedans. Surprised me, too, given the press, but that's what I calculated a couple of years ago from NHTSA figures. When you do have an accident, it usually involves kids, a school, multiple casualties, and thus, PUBLIC ATTENTION. Also, like with SUV's, I suspect most of the reported problems are with the guy behind the wheel driving them in "sports car" mode. If you do that, you're probably going to have a problem eventually, and the fault is not Ford's, IMHO. Driven my way, I'd rather take my chances, and my family's, in a big van than the politically correct small sedan or minivan. Just how I feel.

 

those might be good but not enouth to limit sway.
The sway in the gusty wind was a big surprize to me one time on the long trip in Northern California 6 month after I bought the van (2000 E150, 125k).

What was the problem?
Tires/pressure? No, all good.
Alightment? I am sorry, I am not going into alighnment shop to check (and, got forbit, adjust) the alightment. Even tire wear is BEST indicator of proper alighnment/pressure. Tire rotation just masking the problem so I am not doing that also. And so alightment is good.
Shocks? But they are good. The van does not bounce and pretty comfortable.
Sway bar? But the van did not roll a bit, just could suddenly change direction in gusty wind. If there is no roll, sway bar/shocks would not help.
Suspention/bearings/ball joints/steering gear/tie rod ends? No, all solid except a little play in right lower ball joint (may be 1/16" at the wheel perimeter). I suspected the stearing gear for a while but comparing its freeplay to brand new van's one prooved it not a problem.
Loading/high center of gravity? Well, with 3 people in front, luggage below seats level, low sitting E150, it is as good as can be with full size van.

So what was the problem then?
I spend many months trying to understend. What was strange, is while I could hardly drive 45-50mph on that windy highway, the trucks were passing me at 70mph cutting thru the wind like nothing happening. Some of them were lifted/crue cabs so they are NOT lower then Ford vans.
So I am not buying of argument "it is tall, what do you want?" either.

Now I tend to think the lateral stiffnes of tires are the problem. All of those trucks got significantly wider tires with associated lateral stiffness which is function of sidewall stiffness and the tire width. My E150, on the contrary, is easy to swing left-right by pushing by hand on the corner (the test one guy at Ford dialership told me).

The remedy:
1. Wider, lower profile tires. result: better lateral stiffness. (lower center of gravity/wider span of tires edges are addional benefits to prevent rollover)
2. DRW: doubles the number of sidewalls => better lateral stiffness. (wider tires track is great too to prevent rollover).
3. High load rating tires, C on E150, E on E250, 350 =>better lateral stiffness due to ticker side walls.

Think about it: Ford Escort with 3500 GVWR has 185/65-15 tires, Crown Vic has 215/70-15, but E150 with 7000 GVWR has only 235/75-15. So you think 27% wider, plus, even worse, higher profile, P-metric tire, on the vehicle TWICE as heavy, is enouth? I guess not. Based on the criteria "tire contact spot proportional to the vehicle weight", I would not put anything less then 255/70-15 or 265/70-15 on E150.
den25.

 

I don't dissagree entirely with your idea. Shorter sidewalls do reduce flex all things being equal. When I bought my van it had 28K miles on it and someone had replaced the OE tires with brand new P235/75-15s. These were standard passenger car tires. The van wallowed like a pig. I hated it. I replaced them with the OE Goodyear Wrangler HTs and all was normal. I later replaced the Wrangler HTs with BF Goodrich Commercial T/As (235/75-15 XL, load range C) and the stability was improved yet again.

Tires do have a significant effect on stability but its more important than the sidewall height is the tire's construction and load capacity. Another important fact is that as a _general rule_ shorter side walls have lower load capacity.

Having driven full size vans of many type as well as trucks of varying size and height I can tell you that the full size van, while about the same height as a full size F350 has far more surface area for the cross wind to effect.

My van, equipped with KYB shocks, Helwig front swaybar, rear helper springs and the afore mentioned BFG tires, it is as stable as you could expect any large vechile to be in crosswinds.

Steve
'95 Clubwagon XLT

 

Okay, the alignment shop did a complete front-end checkup (alignment was off a trifle, but, everything else in there was good and snug), set tire pressures to the numbers recommended on the door tag, installed the KYB shocks and the Loadmaster Active Suspension setup in April or May of this year, and, according to the van's drivers, it's a totally different vehicle!! Much more stable and easy to drive.

Many thanks to all the members for ideas and recommendations.

My apologies for not posting the results earlier.

 

Ken, any referrals/links/etc to those E-350 swaybars? - Greg

 

Sure; http://store.summitracing.com/partde...?part=hel-7604 This is for the Hellwig bar from Summit. But you can buy Hellwig or comparable bars from quite a few places.

And whoever brought up the issue of tires, you'll nailed it on the head. I went to a LT225/75/R16 instead of the 245 series and load range E on my 15 pass E-350 Clubwagon. I tried passenger car tires on my previous E-150 Mark III conversion van. Within less than a mile I hated them, WAY too much sidewall flex and with the 6,000 pound travel trailer on the hook it was unsafe at any speed.

 

Well, 245 is the metric measurement of the tread, and 75 is the percentage of tread width for sidewall height, affraid I'll be keeping the 245's, I'm one for width, it's stability, I would like a smaller diameter, but not offered in an E. I'd like to go with a 245/60, but not offered for E, no way would I step down to a lighter load, so I can only wait, how is it that there are guys putting 20's and 22's on these vehicles, the load range isn't available for them.
I had light truck tires on my previous hightop, what was required on the door, chewed them up rather quick, body roll was really harsh, even with air shocks.

 

I also have an '04 E350 15 pass. van that I use for hauling my tools. I have Bridgestone Dueler H/L 245/75/16 tires. The E350 requires Load Range E tires. They are 10 ply sidewalls, which make them VERY stiff and able to handle heavy loads and towing without flexing and causing sway. You can also get C(6 ply) and D(8 ply) tires. If you're having a problem with sway, first thing to check is the tire's load rating and air pressure. I know it's hard to part with $140 per tire for the 10 ply, but it's worth it from a ride quality/safety standpoint.

 

I buy Cooper Discovery from the Cooper dealer in Smyrna, they are $94 each, I got 4 years and 40,000 out of my first set, one defective one seperated, but waited 4 years to let go. Had my tierod ends and ball joint not gone had, I possibly could have gotten more out of them, but excessive wear from thouse part prematurely wore them out. They are an all terrain pattern, the low end Cooper, but I got my money out of them, so I'm happy, buying my next set soon.
I'm wanting to turn my van into a dually, that'll allow me to down grade to load D.

 

previous E-350's all came stock with LT225/75/R16 load range E, which is what I have. They are 15mm narrower, which is like 1/4" ? I wanted a slightly shorter tire in height and circumferance to increase gear ratio. My 3.73's act like 3.90's now with a smaller tire.

 

I perfer wider tires, so I stuck with the 245/75's, put on the Discovery HT hwy tread tires due to the fact they were out of my previous tires, and they had already dismounted them. Found driving on the bad tire bent my rim, so I have to buy another AR 767 from PepBoys. That's not a big enough difference being that I have 3.50 gears, I need to change to 4.10's to get my city MPG up, no tire for an offset like that. BTW, My E-350 came stock with 245/75 R16 tires, width is very important for the 15 passenger vans.

 

ken, 20 mm. difference (225 vs. 245) is slightly over 3/4" inch. I also have the 225 width tires and have considered the 245's, but possibly a lower profile. ( 265?) I am interested in a less harsh ride but still having the load capacity of "e" rated tires. Tire dealers are not too keen on changing from the factory tire sizes though. I concur with you on the e-150 tires, "extra load" tires are necessary on that vehicle.