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Old 02-09-2006, 09:49 PM
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Talking Fabman Equip Update

IT REALLY WORKS !

Just completed my first trial run with my homebuilt "hydrocyclone". Work's better than I hoped it would!

Standard practice is to let the mixed Bio stand for a min of 12 hours, this is to let the glycerol "seperate" and fall to the bottom of the tank, then decant the Bio off.

With the new hydrocyclone the seperation occured within 30min of mixing. Will check the bottom of the tank tomorrow to see if any glycerol settled out tonight.

If this work's as good as it look's, it will forever change the way bio is made by "homebrewers" Should shave alot of time of the process.

The next step is to build a "pulsed-flow-reactor". That would eliminate the need for making it in "batches" and allow a continious flow process. So little time............So many projects. FABMANDELUX
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:03 AM
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how does it work? Hydrocyclone, sounds like it spins, does it spin and make the glycerin come out faster by centrifugal force?
man I wish you lived in Texas so I could check this all out.
-matt
EDIT: Don't blame me if Centifugal (sentrifical) is misspelled. My mom told me how to spell it, she's just a school teacher.
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Last edited by woogs; 02-10-2006 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by woogs
how does it work? Hydrocyclone, sounds like it spins, does it spin and make the glycerin come out faster by centrifugal force?
man I wish you lived in Texas so I could check this all out.
-matt
EDIT: Don't blame me if Centifugal (sentrifical) is misspelled. My mom told me how to spell it, she's just a school teacher.
Check out : http://www.odisfiltering.com/phydro.html for a better idea. FABMANDELUX
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Old 02-10-2006, 09:15 PM
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Day 2

After settling overnight I found about 70 percent seperation. Acted like it didn't have enough flow. Did a flow test on the pump I used today and found 8.5 gal/min. Way to low, the size of hydrocyclone I built requires a MIN of 15 gal/min and a max of 35 gal/min. Not enough velocity! Will try and find another pump this week and try again, BUT.......It looks like this just might work! If I can get 70 percent seperation in 30 min with a unit that pump's less than the minimum GPM I think I can get complete seperation with more velocity. Wish me luck! Will keep all informed. FABMANDELUX.
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Old 02-11-2006, 06:32 AM
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Good luck.

I hope yours are smaller then what we saw in the link. That stuff was hardly garage type equipment.
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Old 02-11-2006, 01:15 PM
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Ok I have a question on this, are you still having to use methyloxide? I was reading somewhere and now I can't find it that someone had developed a process to seperate the glycerin out of the oil without the chemicals I do believe it was using a centrifuge but like I said I haven't been able to find that since the first time I looked at it, and that would make it even better if all you had to do was run it through a process without having to buy lye, or methynol, and would greatly reduce the costs associated with making WVO into biodiesel, plus no dangerous chemicals to play with. Plus you wouldn't have the washing and drying to worry about doing I would think.
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Old 02-11-2006, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
Ok I have a question on this, are you still having to use methyloxide? I was reading somewhere and now I can't find it that someone had developed a process to seperate the glycerin out of the oil without the chemicals I do believe it was using a centrifuge but like I said I haven't been able to find that since the first time I looked at it, and that would make it even better if all you had to do was run it through a process without having to buy lye, or methynol, and would greatly reduce the costs associated with making WVO into biodiesel, plus no dangerous chemicals to play with. Plus you wouldn't have the washing and drying to worry about doing I would think.
Glycerin is is part of the vegetable oil molecule. The Methoxide replaces it with a Methyl radical freeing the glycerol, this is a chemical reaction and cannot be brought about by physical force ie a centrifuge.

A Centrifuge would be useful in causing suspended particals to settle out more rapidly or even to seperate two mixed liquids into layers. That property of a centrifuge may be what you read about in treating WVO
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Old 02-12-2006, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
Ok I have a question on this, are you still having to use methyloxide? I was reading somewhere and now I can't find it that someone had developed a process to seperate the glycerin out of the oil without the chemicals I do believe it was using a centrifuge but like I said I haven't been able to find that since the first time I looked at it, and that would make it even better if all you had to do was run it through a process without having to buy lye, or methynol, and would greatly reduce the costs associated with making WVO into biodiesel, plus no dangerous chemicals to play with. Plus you wouldn't have the washing and drying to worry about doing I would think.
It does not change the need for methaloxide. What I am trying to do is reduce the time needed to settle the glycerol out. When you make as much as we do it's a hassle to wait 12 hours.

The thrust of my research is to change from the batch method to a "continious-flow" process. If I can work out the bug's I should be able to put wvo into one end, and get biodiesel, and glycerol out the other without waiting for it to settle out overnight.

With my new grant we will try to build a complete plant that will fit on a car trailer, that will input wvo and waste wheat straw on one end, and produce "off-road" biodiesel and heating pellets out the other. This should alow wheat farmers to produce thereown fuel, and another product for sale[pellets for wood stoves]. FABMANDELUX.
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Old 02-12-2006, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leskwvo
Good luck.

I hope yours are smaller then what we saw in the link. That stuff was hardly garage type equipment.
Yes, mine is alot smaller. About 6" in dia, and 48" tall. The link was just so everybody could see what I was talking about. FABMANDELUX.
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Old 02-12-2006, 02:20 PM
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Fab,

Great idea. and yes I am interested. One question I have is cost. Honestly what is the cost of setting up one of your processors? Or even to purchase one? I realize this question is probably premature, just curious.
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Old 02-12-2006, 03:30 PM
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Fab,

Great idea. and yes I am interested. One question I have is cost. Honestly what is the cost of setting up one of your processors? Or even to purchase one? I realize this question is probably premature, just curious.
It depends on how good a "scrounger" you are, and your skill level.

A little background: I've spent the last 35 years as a "packrat" If I had to move it would take at least 4, 40' containers just to move the "small stuff". 19 cars and pickups, 6 motorcycles, 8 boats [ incl, a 50',and a 36' ], an airplane + the wife's "stuff"...........you get the picture?

For skills: I've worked in R&D, racing, drag boat racing, construction, mining, logging, manufacturig, shipbuilding, farming, etc.

I have a well equipped large shop, and am semi-retired. the "stuff" I build has very little out-of pocket cost, so it IS a little hard to pin a price on!
BUT......I have had such a responce to what I have built that I'm working on a parts list and print's of the equipment so that others may build one if they choose. I'm also documenting everything on video.


As to the grant, the target cost for a finished, semi-portable plant that will produce 75-100,000 gal per year.........$25,000. That looks like alot but really isn't, 300 gal/day X 5 day/wk X 50wk/yr.

Where I live it will take 262 irrigated acres to produce 75,000 gal of canola oil. Most farms in my area are 6,000 - 15,000 acres and use approx 10,000-15,000 gal of diesel per year. When you combine that with 10,000 farms thats a huge amount of biodiesel production in one year! AND one hell of alot of farm $$$$$$$$$$ that is NOT going to some SHEIK &^%#$@!*&


Enough of my rant........as to cost, when I've finished with my parts list and drawings I will post them for all to see at no cost. I'm not in this to make money. FABMANDELUX.
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Old 02-12-2006, 06:43 PM
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No I realize you are not in it for the money but rather the same goal I am after. To save some money, and to help the environment as well as the American economy. But most of all to keep from funding the war against our American military. Believe me I understand your cause. But I also understand that you labors should not go unpaid either.
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Old 02-16-2006, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
With my new grant we will try to build a complete plant that will fit on a car trailer, that will input wvo and waste wheat straw on one end, and produce "off-road" biodiesel and heating pellets out the other. This should alow wheat farmers to produce thereown fuel, and another product for sale[pellets for wood stoves]. FABMANDELUX.
How will continuous flow work? will you have some sort of machine that heats the wvo as it flows through then continuously adds methyloxide. It will have to sort of be in batches won't it, or can the hydrocyclone continously spin out glycerin and run out bio while more wvo is being added? will you try to recover any of the methyloxide before the glycerin is put in the pellets? will you even use methyloxide? I've heard rumors of new ways to make it separate. Sorry, I could ask you questions all night.
-matt
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woogs
How will continuous flow work? will you have some sort of machine that heats the wvo as it flows through then continuously adds methyloxide. It will have to sort of be in batches won't it, or can the hydrocyclone continously spin out glycerin and run out bio while more wvo is being added? will you try to recover any of the methyloxide before the glycerin is put in the pellets? will you even use methyloxide? I've heard rumors of new ways to make it separate. Sorry, I could ask you questions all night.
-matt
Hi Matt. Yes, the wvo will be heated in a small "flash-boiler", then pumped through a "pulsed-flow-reactor" where the methanol and aquios potassium hydroxide will be injected. The resultant "mix" will be pumped through the hydrocyclone for seperation. Bio will flow into a main settling tank, the glycerol will flow into a vacuume tank for methanol seperation. After the methanol is seperated out it will be mixed with straw and pressed into pellets.
I'm also talking with a fellow in england who has had some luck with a solid catalist to see if we can eliminate the mixing of methaloxide. FABMANDELUX.
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Old 02-16-2006, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woogs
will you even use methyloxide? I've heard rumors of new ways to make it separate. Sorry, I could ask you questions all night.
-matt
Woogs Vegetable oil cannot be seperated into its component glycerol and hydrocrbon chains by mechanical means. They are all part of the molecule that makes up veg oil so a chemical reaction is required.
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