Just wondering what GM and Dodge have up their sleeves for large gas engines in the V10's class?

- Dodge has that big gap between the Hemi and the Cummins since I believe they dropped their V10 from standard trucks.

- I keep hearing on other forums that GM will drop the 8.1 V8 next year in favor of a 7.5 V10.

Incidently, was the Ford V10 first introduced in 1999 model year or was it used in other applications before that time?

 

it was used ford in e series back in 98. i don't see any other maker fighting to build a v-10. it is just not a widesread thing. people shy away when v-10 is mentioned.

 

i have heard the gm v10 rumor as the dealer i worked at was gm and vw. also but also heard it was droped. dcx is trying hard to drop the the old small block based v10 viper motor in favor of thier own long out ohc v12 from the benz but the dealers are fighting it.
the days of the big bore motor and it's poor/cold spot flame travel are limited . as every one seems to be going back to small bore long stroke. heck if you want to get down to it gm is also ending the use of the old 3.8 v6 for a new motor that runs cleaner.

 

Yes , there was a lot of talk about GM going for a V10 to help with emmisions and like Charlie says, rumour has it that GM was having big design problems and might have dropped this project.

With the financial state that GM is in, it would be very difficult to develop a new V10 because it takes a while to get into the market. Ford V10s capture a large share of the Class C market and Ford did their homework when they introduced the V10 because this engine has been rock solid right from the get go.

The truth is in a heavy duty pickup the 6.8 V10 engine has no real competition.
No body offers this kind of capability, durability, and relative fuel economy in a gas engine, as well as meeting all present emmision standards.

They have known for years that big bore engines have a harder time to meet emmission standards and yet Ford was the only Company that developed a smaller displacement V10. Ford has an 8 year head start on the competition and I hope they have more tricks up their sleeve for this outstanding engine. Good Thread.

 

I remember '97 E's getting a V10, but maybe that was very late in the model year? Or just motorhomes? Or I'm stupid? I seem to recall it was given to "fleet" customers before it was really released to the "general public" so that it could be tested.

Big gasser engines seem to be passe... the V10 isn't "big" at 6.8L compared to a 8.1 Chevy, but many people don't get it.

It's funny to see Dodge running with either the 5.7 "hemi" or the Cummins. What a choice. My nephew-in-law has a 1500 with a "hemi" - lots of exhaust noise but it sure doesn't seem to get up and go...

 

I don't believe that ether GM or Dog have anything that comes close to the Triton engine line, Ford made the commitment a long time ago to go across the board and redesign their motors and stop trying to make old technology work in todays emissions and mileage standards. GM has the 6.0 Vortec thats a loser and the 8.1 Vortec is a resurrected Rat motor that been losing power to make it pass emissions and them theres Dog they stayed with Small block after their failed attempt at a V10 (they gave all V10 a bad name in the process) now they are slapping a old muscle car days name on everything that moves in hopes of fooling the public that its the real deal. In the meantime Ford is just keeps refining their new motor line leaving the competition further behind.

Denny

 

I think you all have hit the nail on the head, there is NONE, the 8.1 is on its way out, the 6.0 is alright but for the fuel it uses why not have a 8.1 or a V10. The dodge boys only have the small hemi, supposedly they have a larger one in developement. The only arguement that I have with anything that is said above is the new vs old engine technology, for some reason it hasn't caught up with the 5.3L chevy yet, it has pretty good power, better economy than the ford or dodge (of equal) and seems to run just as long as any of the others. The only probelm I've seen is the ever so typical GM piston slap.

 

I'm sure Dodge will be putting their 6.1L HEMI (425/420 in car form) in the Ram. Maybe in the end of 06 or the 07 models.

Who cares what Chevy is doing.

I imagine there isn't a lot of talk around ANY of the manufacturer's board room table about which large displacment gas engine they should design or put in their truck lines.

 

this is actually the reason GM dropped the multi-cylinder motor development, ie; a V10 for their light duty trucks/SUV and a V12 for the Cadillac line. The same reason the rear wheel drive car platform got dumped. Not enough money. Lutz seems to think a couple 'halo cars' will save GM. Well a Solstice and a C6 Vette aint gonna do it Bob. People buy trucks, but we also want good mileage. The 8.1 is a dinosaur, the 6.0 gas engine, while a great motor, hasn't got the stump pulling torque. So unless you want a GM diesel, you're gonna have to look at a Ford V10. Dodge ? Haha, the Hemi is a nice little hot rod motor. Hot rods can't work hard day in and day out. The torque curve on a 6.1 SRT motor is not conducive to jerking a backhoe up a hill. How are you gonna get your motor to 4,000 to get moving with 12,000 pounds of Case on the trailer ? NOT.

 

Here's a question for you guys on V10 Competition. When Toyota or Nissan gets into the heavy duty pickup market, do you think they will go with a real powerful gasser or will they just try the lucrative diesel market. It might get interesting and it annoys me that in the light duty pickups, the Titan V8 will smoke an F150 5.4.

Ford should have offered the V10 in the F150, They can get it into a van, surely they could have designed the F150 to accept a quiet and powerful V10. Then Ford would be King of both truck worlds. A V10 SD will still give a Titan a good run and some of the smaller style configurations will beat it , but the stock 5.4 is no match for the Titan.

Too bad Nissan put such a light duty rear end in the Titan. Too bad for Nissan and Ford still knows how to build a tougher truck. Let's hope it always will.

 

I have to agree that the 8.1 is an old engine, well the block design, anyway. I also agree that 6.0 gasser makes it's torque at a higher rpm than most would like and gets almost the same mileage as the 8.1. I towed my 9500 boat with a 8.1 suburban and it far outpulled my v-10. It also got better mileage than my v-10. Now for the what-ifs. My truck is a 99 with 3.73's and 35's, so that discounts my statements dramatically. I would like to pull my boat with a stock v-10 just for a comparison. From what you guys are saying it is a monster.
I know I'm all over the place here, but doesn't it make you nervous having the engine rev so high to get to the peak torque & HP numbers? It sure does make me nervous pulling 9500 lbs with the engine screaming at 4000 rpm for what seems like 5 minutes.

 

Jason, Welcome to OHC engines!! Actually in all reality the V10 makes like 80% of its torque below 2k rpms. The actuall peak may not be untill I believe 3400rpms with the HP peaking right around 4000rpms. The V10 has a VERY VERY Flat torque curve, which is part of the reason it's such a monster, it doesn't care weather its at 2500 rpms or 4500 rpms, it pertty content running either, it just depends how fast you want to drian your wallet or how big of a BSEG you want. Also a 99' with 3.73s and 35s is not a good place to base any opinion, heck my 302 in my old 86 would feel powerful, lol. Even an 02 and up with 4.10s makes a world of difference more less the 05s and 06s with the 5R100, 4.30s and the new 3Valve heads, tuned exhaust and new intake!

 

If I know the engine was designed for it from the beginning, no. It's the nature of the overhead cam beast. Peak torque on the "10" is at 3250 RPM's but most of it is available lower than that; it's got a reasonably flat torque curve. I had a '99 w/ 3.73's and 33" tires so I know what you're talking about. My '03 with the upgraded motor (310 vs 275HP), coupled with the 4.30's make an entirely different animal running the same 33" tires. Fuel mileage is the same or better.

 

Ok, I don't feel so bad now. What do you think about going to a 4.30 taller gear? I know it will help, but I don't know how long I'll keep the truck. I buy stuff with high miles, as I drive about 30k miles a year and this truck has 107k on it now so 2 years max is all the more I'll have it.
What else can I do to improve the performance of the truck? I have a Hypertec programer I bought to re-cal the speedometer. It helped a little on the performance side, but not what I was looking/hoping for. I have read about the Banks system, Headers, modded y-pipe but I don't need to sink a ton of $$ into a high mile truck that I don't plan on keeping very long.
So what di you suppose is the biggest/best bang for the buck?

 

In your shoes (which I was in August) I would not put a whole lot more into the '99. A gear swap will be $1500 at least. That's one of the reasons I traded in August even though my '99 had only 87k miles on it. I would instead keep my eye open for a '03 or '04 that was attractively priced that already had 4.30's in it and go from there, starting with a Y-pipe.