When it comes to forced air induction, I'm not a real fan of the K+N as I've seen the resulting damage first hand.

Keep in mind that diesels consume about 4x the air compared to a gasser.

I tend to believe that it could be a diesel thing and that air velocity on a turboed diesel could be too great for the K+N element to handle. IMO this would lead to the sucking off the oil of the element, which would ulitimately result in the turbo and motors demise.

 

The sucking of OIL into a diesel will lead to it's demise? ROFL. You do know what diesel fuel is right?

Forums at Dieselstop.com, dieselplace.com, dieselram.com and our fleet of 175 diesel 3/4 tons all running K&N's .... disagree with your hypothesis.

Bill

 

Bill, looks like you haven't read the URLs you referenced:


From dieselram.com:


No K&N here either.... BHAF-50.00, New Cummins- Thousands of dollars....you do the math. The K&N is supposed to flow better with with each mile you drive,as well as filter better also???? how could it be? Was it letting some nasties by before it started filtering better? Not worth the risk for me.

This URL is from the dieselplace.com:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...er+filter+test

 

So what's doing the filtering? You really think that that oil-less K+N is doing a bang up job on filtering?

A dry K+N is like running with out a filter.

What's the old saying about assumptions?

 

This is one of those topics where everyone has an opinion, not many of them based on anything other than what they've read on the internet or elsewhere and often based on wide ranging assumptions.

Yes, a paper filter will filter more than oiled. In a lab, I'm sure that can be proven. What is not shown in that lab is whether or not the filter ON THIS TRUCK, needs to filter to that fine and at that volume of dirt. Running down the highway, is your truck subjected to that level of contamination in the air? Will a particle below a certain size do damage to your motor? Do you know? Of course you don't. All I can vouch for, and all I am vouching for is that our fleet of trucks need as much air as it can get to haul heavy loads up the mountains and with the K&N in our trucks they get better mileage. When you have this many trucks, each pulling loads, each doing better than 30k miles per year...it doesn't take much of a spreadsheet to get an average MPG, nor does it take much in the way of education to read the increase in the vehicles you test the K&N on. Oil testing hasn't shown any wear metal increase....so draw your own conclusions.

I'm not trying to sell you a thing, drive your truck the way you like, change your oil every 3000 miles and your paper filter every other week if you so choose to. I stretch an oil change out significantly further than that based on the testing of oil life we did when I worked at Chrysler R&D, and I use K&N based on the testing I've done with our fleet. And as to the gentleman's claim that oil off the filter will trash a motor.....I still disagree with you, but next time I'm at the track I'll be sure to warn the other hundred or so $100k+ race car owners about your opinion. I'm sure they will all run straight to the parts store.

Bill

 

OK, I'll tell you that any dirt in an engine will do damage! So with that in mind, It depends upon how and where it is used to determine how much damage it will do in the life of a motor. The average gas motor,(current engines) are designed to last to an average lifespan of 150,000 mi. (This is what I've been told by the engineers). I personally have a K&N filter in my truck for a test purpose for myself. I haven't increased fuel mileage, nor did it increase my power, nor do I feel it filters as well as the stock filter (MY OPINION!).So after my next oil change which is done at 3000 mi. because changing the oil is cheaper than the engine I'll put back in the stock filter. It's not totally the oil that trashes the motor on a diesel, It's the crap that goes through the filter and dusts the turbo and the cyl.walls I've seen it it's not pretty.

 

There is a lot of instances when UOA shows high levels of Si when using a K&N air filter. This comes from dirt!!!

 

from all the diesel nuts I know, they swear by amsoil filters. They swear the foam cleans more dirt and flows better than any paper or oil gause filter. Now these are lots more $$$ but worth it if you plan on putting loads of miles on the truck. then again, why buy a diesel if you don't.


micky

 

Ahhh!!! Another thread on K&N vs paper vs foam, etc. Little did BlackFX4Screw know what he was starting. Or maybe he did. This sure is entertaining reading all the posts!!! Keep 'em comin'!!!!

PS BlackFX4Screw, I've had the K&N drop in filter in several vehicles including my 05 F150. Haven't had a problem yet that was traced back to poor filtration. Then again, I live in Minnesota where we have snow on the ground for several months. Not much dust then except snow dust. So, I suppose, many factors need to be considered. Just my thoughts.

 

Two different types of filtration going on between the filters, in terms of filtration the foam type is better, but the flow drops off really fast as it loads up.

The foam filter relies on a restriction type of filtration much like a paper filter any thing that is smaller than X microns is let through and the rest is caught.

The K+N types relies on an adheasion type of filtration in where the oil does the filtering and the gause merely holds the oil and the dirt as it builds up. The filter is only as good as the amount of oil that it has on the element, too much and you'll foul out the MAF sensor and load up the intake, too little and you'll have dirt problems. The problem comes when you clean your filter way to often that even with the oil in the gauze, the pores are so big that they let dirt by.

 

Oil off the filter?

Oil off the filter isn't the issue, its all of the dirt that's being passed after that oil has left the filter! Once the K+N has lost it's oil it's a worthless paper weight! Apparently you haven't seen an aluminum head that has had a poor filtering K+N before.

Your making the faulty assumption that I'm some schmoe that has no clue along with the others that have chimed in as nay sayers, Believe me, we are more informed than the average joe when it comes to air filtration and oils.

Not only have I lost a PSD motor to a K+N (turbo got dusted and the motor sucked a fin) I also spent a little time around the track with my own car, and am engineer myself.

 

I think K&N realizes that their filters do not filter that well. Check out this
K&N URL:

http://www.knfilters.com/wraps.htm

They now have a "Pre Charger" filter that you use in "Very dusty conditions".

Why go to all this trouble & expense, when you can just use a OEM paper filter, and change it regularly?????

 

Actually, my race car has an aluminum head, turbo charged and running 23psi of boost producing 450hp with 2.5 liters on the dyno. It has had the K&N on it since I bought the car 110k miles ago. I did a leak down test on it last month, under 5% on all cylinders (yes, that is better than your 5.4 was brand new), with 180k miles on the ORIGINAL motor with no rebuild. Your assumption that all of the oil can possibly be sucked out of a K&N is mistaken in my experience. There is no way your 8 cylinder producing 300hp is sucking more air than a 4 cylinder taxed with 450hp...and I've never sucked the oil off the K&N. Nor has any of our fleet trucks had the problem you suggest. Like I said though, everyone has their own opinion on filters and as long as you are happy with yours that is all that matters. I'm perfectly happy with mine.

If I were an offroad guy, or raced my car in rally rather than GT-3....I would rethink my filtration....otherwise the K&N filters well enough for the street and delivers the flow I want. Any stroll around the pits will certainly not find a paper filter in sight. That said, on a stock, normally aspirated truck...the benefits are small. But then at $40 for a drop in, you can't expect a whole lot.

Bill

 

Quote: BTW, you only should clean the K+N types at intervals of every 50,000 if you must use one.
Cleaning them too often not only lessens the filtering, it causes the cotton media pores to become larger due to the repeated washing and drying of the element. A K+N that's been washed too much would be similar to not even having a filter on.


I use K&N FIPKs w/ 80mm MAFs on my 97 F150 & 02 Stang GT. The reason I installed FIPKs, was the fact the stock filter was NOT the restricting airflow, but the stock intake 'ductwork' / MAF itself.
The FIPKs really open this up. The Stang has never seen a gravel road, the F150 maybe 10 times in it's life.
I whole heartedly agree in not cleaning them unless needed. In fact I also run dry chargers over the filters, taking the dry charger off every six months or so to vacuum the dust off of them. I have 38K on the F150 filter, adding a little oil (aerosol) to the inside of the filter @25K. I have not touched the Stang's filter @22K.
Cleaning these filters 'too often' does much more harm than good IMHO
Thanx