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  #1  
Old 12-07-2005, 07:54 PM
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wolfmanagh wolfmanagh is offline
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Bio diesel crystalized

About two weeks ago I had filled up at a station in Clear Lake Iowa. I'm not sure what the mix % of bio diesel eas in it. Since the price was cheaper than what I figured a artic blend should be I had put some antigel in the tank too. All was running good. Now just yesterday when the air tempertures here got down to 0°F, (st.paul/minneapolis) well that day the truck started up but it just wouldn't stay running. We pulled it in and warmed it up inside for an hour changed the fuel filter for good measure and I went down and put in 20 gallons of good artic blend fuel. All seems good now. So at this point we are just guessing I didn't get enough antigel in the tanks.

Now today truck started good ran good for 5 miles. And then we had to tow it back again. (using a tow strap) We got it inside and this time we decided to drain the tank. Now we dug up every jug we could for the 35 gallons. Everything had to come out. We will still use the fuel after we filter it a few times to get the crystals out. It was very cloudy fuel.
We took some fuel before filtering it and put it into a clear pop bottle and looked at it. Cloudy
Then we took some fuel after filtering it through a couple old shirts. Nice and clear
When we first started pouring the fuel through to be filtered it went faster but than after the second gallon it started flowing through slower.

So after the tank was drained, we refilled it with a artic fuel and another fuel filter to be safe. I then used it on a 45 mile round trip today. I will see how it does tomorrow.
So far my thoughts about bio diesel are not good. The clouding point is just not good enough for me. Summer months are fine but this stuff is not good for us in the colder areas.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:40 PM
willd willd is offline
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Sounds like you need 2 tanks. One for regular diesel and one for biodiesel. Run a heater hose back to the biodiesel and heat the tank up, then switch over. In the long run it will pay for itself, but only if you are driving a lot of miles and you save a lot of $ buying the biofuel. For the casual operator I doubt that it is worth the hassle.
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Old 12-07-2005, 10:55 PM
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I didn't want to use the stuff and still don't. I needed fuel so I didn't have much choice other than to fill up there. I figured I should be alright but I guess I figured wrong. The truck was running fine up untill the temps here got down to 0°F and the bio fuel has already started doing its thing. Most years here we don't get those temps untill the end of december. I can get by up to a month between fills. Most of the time its about 3 weeks between fills.

I think I'm just more anoyed more than anything else.
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Old 12-08-2005, 06:24 AM
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I'm not sure how bio reacts to cold, but in my experience, if you are getting crystals out of the tank and filter then your problem was water. I have had the exact same thing happen up in NW MO. and I had never heard of biodiesel at the time.
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Old 12-08-2005, 05:54 PM
OMCUSNR OMCUSNR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willd
Sounds like you need 2 tanks. One for regular diesel and one for biodiesel. Run a heater hose back to the biodiesel and heat the tank up, then switch over. In the long run it will pay for itself, but only if you are driving a lot of miles and you save a lot of $ buying the biofuel. For the casual operator I doubt that it is worth the hassle.
You're confusing bio-diesel with W/SVO. You do NOT need heated tanks to run biodiesel. Bio will cloud about 40, and gell under 30, but if you're running good quality bio with #1 winter diesel at B-20, you should be good to 0 or under.

It sounds to me like wolfman got some fuel (either the bio or the petro) with water in it that froze.

There isn't a really good anti-gel for straight bio yet, but a b-20 w/ AG will take it down to under 0.
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Old 12-08-2005, 06:46 PM
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Today checking the fuel that came out. It has sat inside a heated shop overnight. The fuel we had put in to pop bottles, the cloudy fuel is still cloudy and the filtered fuel is still clear. If it was water in with it I think the cloudy fuel would have thawed and cleared up. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
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Old 12-10-2005, 11:29 AM
Dave Barbieri Dave Barbieri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmanagh
Today checking the fuel that came out. It has sat inside a heated shop overnight. The fuel we had put in to pop bottles, the cloudy fuel is still cloudy and the filtered fuel is still clear. If it was water in with it I think the cloudy fuel would have thawed and cleared up. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Yup, you're right on the water thing. Sounds like you've got contaminated fuel, and your filters are clogging trying to deal with it. Could be bacteria, but that usually show up as black residue on the filter element. Not sure why it took two weeks to show up, but I would drain both tanks completely and change the fuel filter(s). Then refill with known good fuel, add a dose of fungicide and go on from there.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:18 PM
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Cloudiness from suspended crystals sounds like contaminated fuel to me. I would add some algaecide to the next couple of tanks of fuel just to be sure.

Another consideration is the natural detergent properties of Bio. New users find themselves changing fuel filters quite often untill their fuel system is clean.

Try the folks at this forum http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/...rm/f/607108578
I have found a lot of good info there
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Last edited by Phydeaux88; 12-12-2005 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:50 AM
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What you are experiencing is cloud point as there are several Esthers in Biodiesel and each has it's own cold flow Plug point. As the temps dip these molecules start to crystalize and bond with each other, eventually getting to the gelled point. There are additives, but so far none really work well below 0 degrees except Primrose 4033 which I am still doing some testing on.

The other thing you might have experiences is emulsion. If there was water in the Biodiesel and you were driving (thus agitating the fuel water mix) it will start to reverse the reaction process, and form soap, which will take weeks to month's to "drop" back out. This is a result of poor reaction/fuel processing or water present in the storage tank. This does not sound like Fungus though you might wanna get someone in your area familiar with Biodiesel to look at it.

One of the biggest drawbacks to running Biodiesel in the winter is the CFPP (Cold Flow Plugging Point) this is when the fuel begins to crystalize and form small "chunks" these build up in an unheated filter and plug it up (thus the plug point). Many bio users do the same thing Straight Vegetable users do which is to have a second tank and heat it and switch when the fuel reaches temp (a lot less than SVO).

I have figured out that the only way to run bio in the winter is to run an additive known to work with Bio and run a remote car starter with the cold start remote sensor, this will start the vehicle and heat the fuel via the return line, and if temps really dip alot I would suggest a coolant type tank heater.

The coolant type tank heater will use the coolant from your hot engine and recirculate it through the tank and should be routed along any fuel line to add heat there too. There are many good ideas on www.biodieselcommunity.org. That is all for know ask me anything you want I have the answer or know where to get it.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:50 AM
 
 
 
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