Brad,

I agree with everything you are saying. I cant stress enough that its the dealers fault not necessarily Fords. I know nothing is perfect but like I have said several times the dealer is the first line of defense.

Sarge

 

DickensCPA,

I guess everyone has their own issue, but I sold a friend a 91 Toyota SR5 (Tacoma) pickup with 12K miles on it and at 60K he had a head gasket blow. He paid $900 to have the gaskets on both heads (V6) replaced. Two months later, he received a letter from Toyota stating they were extending the warranty on the engine due to head gasket problems. He sent the bill to Toyota and amazingly; they sent him a check for the total bill, no quibbles, no hassles. That is good customer relationship building. He still has the truck with well over 120K miles, still runs great. He’d buy another in a minute. I've never had GM or Ford treat me that way. (Don't even get me started on the 4 transmissions that were replaced on my 79 Chevy Malibu wagon in the first 16K miles. Both companies have a lot to learn about treating the customer with respect, courtesy, and providing a product that holds up. I've had Infiniti, Acura, and now Toyota (Prius), and I don't have to run to the dealer every few weeks with a new problem. They are just plain built better. I hate to send my money overseas as well, but until GM and Ford gets their act together, and fast, they are doomed.

 

I kinda agree with Sarge. I think it all boils down to your dealer and how he goes to bat for you. I like to trade vehicles often. I got that from my Dad. When he would go to a new dealer he would tell them, "It's up to your salesman to sell me the first vehicle. It's up to your service department to sell me the second one."

My local Harley dealer would go thru he!! and half of Georgia to battle the MOCO for a customer. In other areas dealers are referred to as "stealers."

The truck I was driving before the Toyota was a "brand new" Ford. It had 25 miles on it when I bought it. What I didn't know was someone rolled it on a test drive. I had the thing 6 mos and did everything but rebuild it. The frame was bent among MANY other probs. I was furious when I found out. The dealer got sued by the Toyota dealer I traded at and paid dearly, especially local publicity. I had to look past the fact that it wasn't Ford's fault, but the slimey dealer.

I don't have a problem buying from across the pond at all. I've had nothing but reliabilty from my Nissans. I prefer a Ford at the moment. My ONLY qualm with Nissan is they change their body styles to often and date your vehicle. REALLY hits you hard on a trade. As far as American made, my Nissans were built 32 miles south of me and my two Avs were built in Mexico. Go figure.

Brad

 

In regards to consumer reports, Im not talking about their car evaluation articles, Im talking about millions of car owners who evaluate their vehicles in 12 different categories including engine, drivetrain, electrical etc, not cupholders. All you have to do is subscribe and go to their automotive ratings and you can see for yourself the incidence of problems with any particular car over the past 5 or 6 years. Before I plunk down 40 grand for a truck I dont mind seeing what thousands of owners say about their experience with that vehicle. As far as quality goes, perhaps you guys may have heard the Ed Deming story. Deming was the world's top manufacturing consultant. Ford and Gm both appealed to him(this was many years ago) for help as to how to get on track with their market. His message was simple " You cannot be second in quality to anyone" They said thanks but no thanks. Then the Japenese called him. They listened and embraced every aspect of his techniques and the rest is history. You older guys like me might remember there was a time when Jap cars were junk. Thats how they turned it around. Im as patriotic as the next guy, but Im gonna keep flogging my 75 F250 cause as pretty and shiny as the new ones are I stil think it will outlast the new ones. Plus I dont need expensive scanners to diagnose it at even more expensive auto shops. If it misbehaves I can deal with it.

 

Just go read Consumer Reports. If you want reliability, buy a Toyota or Honda. American made vehicles are the worst in reliability. They're cheaper though. If you buy anything American, this is what you have to deal with. You pay for it later.

 

I noticed he kept wanting to touch other mens' genitals, but what ever floats your boat.


Anyway, I love my Ford and would like to continue buying nothing but American made products. But when Ford brags about repeat buyers in their ads, they are relying on faithful customers to bring in new customers, why not make the ones you already have happy? I have been faithful to Ford, now I'd like to see some thankful service in return, take care of your customers and they will return. I realize that freak mishaps happen and things break. But when wide scale problems occur, Ford should look to resolve some of these issues rather than simply attract more buyers because if a customer has a bad experience as a new Ford owner, they will usually never buy again. On the other hand, if a die hard Ford owner has a bad experience they will shrug it off and usually buy again. Im just asking for loyalty from them, thats all.

 

silver, you're one loyal dude. At the end of 60 minutes last night Andy Rooney came on and gave his little 5 minute talk. He talked about this very thing. I don't remember the details but he brought up Consumer Reports and their conclusion that Japaneese made cars are the most reliable and American made are the least. That cannot be argued. It's the facts. But when I bought my 98 Taurus used, It was half the price of the equivalent in a Toyota, Honda, or VW. That's why I bought it. It's been a good car but the power steering went out on it 2 months ago and it costed $500 to replace. The mechanics of the unit were fine but it sprung a leak. Come on now, the ps unit in my 72 truck still hasn't sprung a leak and if it did I could buy a new seal and replace it. The Taurus body had to be unbolted from the frame and jacked up to get it out which is why you bite the bullet and buy another for $200 instead of trying to fix it. The labor is $300 and I don't want to have to pay that again.

 

My parents bought a used 92 Mercury Sable a while back, in the 4 years they have owned it we have replaced:

Alternator
ps pump
water pump
tstat
radiator
shocks/struts
trans front seal
radio
AC lines
head gaskets
valve job on the heads
every gasket on the top end
reverse light sensor
ebrake bracket
front/rear brakes
new paint
Both CV axles

This of course does not include the normal maint items such as tires, plugs/wires, etc.

Now it needs inner tie rods, front control arms due to bushings need replacing and Ford does not offer the bushing separate. This car has been sitting in front of their driveway for months now because I havent been home to fix it for them. Luckily my grandmother who swears by toyota, gave them a 2002 Camry with less than 6k miles on it. The old taurus/sables were a can of worns, yes they were initially inexpensive, but you end up spending 4 times the money later.

 

Wonder how they did that?

 

More like why.... Totally un-necessary if it's anything like the 2000's.

I have to laugh when people keep tossing out the imports = Quality card, which is often followed by the import slanted CR. Ocasionally Demming gets tossed in as well.

Ford gets lambasted for something that has a .0000007% possibility of happening (read cruise control recall), and yet not even a mention of the Nissan Titan and its rearend puking qualitys, heck even one prominet 4x4 had the Titan on a 40K long term test and it had to have the rear axel changed 3 TIMES! When's the last time any one had their rearend blow up?

The only thing CR did was quitely remove the Titan from the Top Quality vehicles list.

Let's not forget the Toyota sludge monster motors either, even see it mentioned in CR, heck no! Do I dare mention some of the more recent major recalls by Honda and Toyota? Oh wait a minute, I forgot, the imports get a free pass as they've recongnized a problem, which is something that domestics simply can't understand, never mind that Ford just blew major bucks on something that has a .0000007% of happening.

Heck any domestic that has a paint swirl gets its doors blown off by CR.

To blindly say that domestics aren't a quality product or are incapable of quality is totally infactual (especially if you research the REAL numbers across the whole market not from CR) and just shows how limited in facts people can be and that is FACT.

While CR may get its supposed numbers from actual users and owners, CR editors and writers still have the ability to possibly alter the real numbers, this is something that most proponets of CR have a hard time following.

 

I cant express enough that I think that Ford Builds a quality vehicle. This thread was not started to lambaste Ford or other posters. It was a venting spot for me. I think that the dealer needs to fix the way they treat customers when returning for service. Thats all I have been trying to say. I know that not all dealers around this great country are as bad as mine probably is but god willing and if my truck passes the leak down test I will have it back tomarrow. I am hoping that this was my first, and knock on wood last, major mechanical hurdle for a while with this truck. Anyway the good news is that if the truck needs an engine I get a new truck, if it doesnt need an engine I am getting a 7-75,00 mile warranty Premium Care at no charge. So I guess that all the aggrivation was worth it. I hope to have many good years with this truck.

Sarge

 

That's not what the chop means, you f-gg-t. The chop simply is a gesture, lifted from pro sports, taunting opponents by making a V shape. Another gesture would be flipping someone off from the dug out. Get it? It has nothing to do with touching people. Some of you folks are sickos! Before someone else goes off on another tangent about Toyota, Ford F150 is the best for quality. Research proves this. I suggest you do some of your own research instead of believing everything CR and the Toyota Koolaid drinkers are saying.

 

Facts!?! Not that it would really matter but feel free to show some "real" un-biased facts, not one suit and tie guys take on the issue of reliability/durability among auto makers using some biased report(s) for a basis. lmao

Rooney is good for a laugh, but that's it!!

IMO Toy is nothing special! I definately do not see where they have a superior product. I've owned one in my lifetime, and have had some friends own a few along the way as well, and I don't see where all the praise for toy's comes from. I see em dead along the roadways just as much as gm's.

It sickens me to see so many on the road, knowing "first and foremost" what their country did to this country during WWII. I for one will never forget and will never line their pockets!

 

I can only speak from experience and having never owned a foreign car that doesn't give me much. As far as American made, here at work between my father and I we have owned four Ford escorts since 1988. All had over 200k miles when sold from the co. One employee bought one four years ago and still drives it everyday. Except for a timing belt on one of them we did absolutly no work on them including the 98 model I am driving mow with 142k miles. And if you want to believe it or not we neglect these cars very much. What I mean by that is we change the oil about every 10k miles and no other maint. is done on them. I was very sorry to se it go out of production.
When I was searching for my last one I shopped a Honda dealer because I had just about given up on finding a escort. The Honda salesman raved about how long these cars would last and how great the mileage was and how you couldn't get that from an american made car. His responce to my experience was that I was lucky. I don't see it that way. My 98 model even with 142k gets 38 mpg and only cost me 10k, he wanted 13 for his civic.
There may be something to the comments of foreign quality over american because you hear it in everything but I personally don't see it and unless I'm forced to I'll never try to find out.
I know some people would call me narrow minded but it seems to me that foreign countries are slowly trying to take this country over anyway and the Gov. just seems to promote it all the time.
Could the big three do more for quality and service? sure any business could. Is us buying foreign car the right way to help the american economy? I don't think it is. And no I really don't have the answer.
Sorry for the long post! Everyone seems to be venting here and Figured I'd join in. It just gets me to here people ranting about how great foreign stuff is when my american stuff seems just fine to me.
Ya'll have a great day!!! God Bless the USA!!!

 

osbornk, the shop didn't have to completely remove the body from the frame. I was gonna do the fix myself. I have the Taurus shop manual and the instructions said to lift the car up high, remove the bolts holding the body to frame on the drivers side, support the body with jacks, and then lower the car. This would create an opening to slide the old unit out and new one in. I would have needed a lift to do this one.

Hey superranger, why do you knock CR? Even Click and Clack have always touted the quality of Japanese over American made vehicles.