So this is what I was wondering. I'm planning to put a manual trany in my truck. and got to thinking; The gas version of the ZF5, if tough enough to handle the diesel would be great with a 3.55 rear gear... right now I have 4.10 so I need to know how hard it is to change out gears too. But take a look at the #. by having a gas trany and a 3.55 I would have lower 1st and second than I have now with a 4.10!!! close to the same 3rd then higher 4th and 5th for cruseing on the high way!!. . it looks like a better set up to me!!? poor mans gear vendor!!
So three questions how tough is it and costly is it for me to put 3.55 in myself... {4x4} , will the gas trany hold up to a PSD. and if not can I get it built tough enough??
and am I just nuts and should forget about the whole thing thanks for any imput J




I had alittle trouble formatting the chart. but the first # is the trans ratio and the second# is the final drive ratio

ZF 5-SPEED MANUAL (Diesel & Gas Final Drive Ratios)


DieselTrans Ratio
trans / 4.10

1st / 4.14 / 16.97
2nd / 2.37/ 9.72
3rd / 1.42/ 5.82
4th / 1.00/ 4.10
5th / 0.76/ 3.12

GasTrans Ratio

trans / 3.55gear

1st/5.72 /20.31
2nd/2.94 /10.44
3rd/1.61 /5.72
4th/1.00 /3.55
5th/0.76 /2.70

 

well it depends on which gas engine the tranny comes out of. if it comes out of a 460 i think the bellhousing is the same but if it comes out of a small black the bell housings are different. asfar as the internals i don't know.

the gears will be tricky. if you have never set up a rear end i would hire that out. it doesn't take much to ruin a new gear set if the gears aren't messing correctly or the bearing are too loose or too tight.

 

i meant meshing not messing!

 

the difference between a gas and diesel zf5 is the gear ratios.
both trannies are good to 470 ft. lbs of torque.

close ratio diesel//////wide ratio gasoline
1 5.08////////// 5.72
2 2.60////////// 2.94
3 1.53//////////1.61
4 1.0///////////1.0
5 .77///////////.76
R 4.66/////////5.24
THESE NUMBERS ARE STRAIGHT FROM MY FORD SHOP MANUAL!!!!

plain and simple they make it easier for the gas tranny to get moving because they dont have the torque like we do.
and a 4x4 and 4x2 are different obviously because it hooks up to the transfer case.
shoot with a gas tranny it will be reallllllllllyyyy easy to get a big load moving.

why are you wanting to lose the 4.10's????????

 

Really? A stock 1997 PSD 5-speed came with 480 ft. lbs. of torque from the factory.

 

FWIW a quote from the manual

"""" the model number for the zf transmission(7003) is s5-47. this model number can be divided into three parts. first "s" designates a synchronized transmission. second "5" designates the number of forward gears. finally,"47" is the APPROXIMATE maximum input torque capacity in tens of lb ft. in this case 47 equals 470 lb ft input torque capacity.

the s5-47 zf transmission is available in both wide ratio and close ratio versions. the wide ratio version is avail for all f series veh over 8500 ln gvw with gas engines(6007). the close ratio version is available only in f series vehicles with a 7.3l diesel engine and a gvw over 8500 lb. the ratios shown in chart"""""

we all know they are quite capable of handling a lot more than that but whatever.
hey wyoming i see diesel 5 speeds for sale on tds for 500 bucks a lot.


edit: btw a s5-42 is a 5 speed from the older trucks for 420 ft lbs.......

 

I was just curious about that because the truck came with more torque from the factory, that's all.

 

i wondered about that too....470...hmmm im almost double that right now....
maybe that refers to the whole assy including the clutch.

i would stick to the diesel ratios, with a heavy load its a long jump from 2-3 as it is. the gas is even further away. the gears arnt too bad to setup as long as you have the right stuff. randys ring and pinon has a kit to do the install with the dial indicator and mag base, the marking goo and all the bearings it would probably run about $1000 for the gears, bearings, shims, and tools. the tools are only about $200 in all that.

 

Thanks for the replys all . this just what My mind gets to dooing late a night.. I kike having the 4.10. but a hiway speeds it sucks up fuel. I know I know it's a bigg sss truck!! but Snince I I drive mostly w/o a trailer. ..and a lot of my trailer pulling is at slower speeds. it seemed like a posabilty to get lower gearing in the 1st-3rd and taller gearing in the 4th and 5th. lower rpms at 45+!!





[QUOTE=
1 5.08////////// 5.72
2 2.60////////// 2.94
3 1.53//////////1.61
4 1.0///////////1.0
5 .77///////////.76
R 4.66/////////5.24
THESE NUMBERS ARE STRAIGHT FROM MY FORD SHOP MANUAL!!!!

?[/QUOTE] I wonder why I got very diffeant # from all the gear/od sites// ??

 

[QUOTE=
hey wyoming i see diesel 5 speeds for sale on tds for 500 bucks a lot.

....[/QUOTE] Can you pm me that site Thanks J

 

very interesting thoughts I too spend ALOT of time empty with the '97 and have been contemplating a 5 speed swap anyway. now if the gasser tranny is the same, score!!!!! cuz I see these alot more in junk yards then the diesel tranny.

I don't see why the bell housings can't be changed if they are different.

I assume the model number is cast into the tranny somewhere, any one know for sure??? I know where there is a 5 speed right now near me.

Diesel Rod

 

my tranny has a big sticker and bar code on the driver side of it with all the info on it. the bellhousings are one with the tranny. all one unit. i believe i heard also one or 2 bolts are different but cant confirm this(although i see no difference in my manual). if i was in cali i could check my grandpas he has a 96 460 gasser 5 speed. my dad also has one on a 78 460.

wyoming pm coming your way.

 

Thanks for the PM 97-350


SO what is the over all vote??? how many folks think this Idea has Merit(gas zf5+ 3.55 ). And who thinks Ishould just stick with the the Diesel ZF-5 and the 4.10
to give a better idea of what I do with the truck heer is some more info.

the truck is my only vehicle. I use it to comute to work (horse shoeing and other odd jobs) This is mostly hiway. but
I take back roads (paved) roads aloe to keep my speeds down and rpms closer to 1500. seems to bee the sweet spot for my truck . I do put a good sized horse trailer 10K+ at times but I dont ever pull faster than 55-60 so I dont smash the ponies if I have to stop in a hurry...

SO IF I look at th gearing chart Igot from gear vendor If I have the gasser+3.55 tanny I get neary the same as if Ihad the diesel trant and the 4.10. for the 1st -3rd.. and the tall 4th and fith.. seems like it would be an over all performance gain to me!! but This is just theroetical to me.. do you folks think it is worth it or not for my type of driving.. thanks J

 

i say you stick with your 4.10 and whatever tranny you can come up with. i think it would take a long time for you to make up the cost of replacing the gears. dont forget about the front if you got a 4x4?????????? another pm coming your way!!!!!!

 

You can also get the gears from the F450 Superduty in the old body style. I twisted the splines on the tranny output shaft and transfer case input shaft. Instead of tearing it all apart I bought the whole internals for $200 to make it easier and all we did was check the synchros thickness for wear and pull the adapter off so it all comes out together and pull the detent plugs and springs. Put it all back together. I still have to get the transfer case front planetary before I can try it out. Remember a two wheel drive Superduty tranny will work because it has a parking brake on it that bolts up like a transfer case would. I like taking off in second and have 4:10 gears with 38's so it will be better I think. The person helping has a business partner that allready did the same swap but I didn't get to drive his. I am worried about the bigger gap from second to third though. Just look at the tag on the tranny, it shows the gear ratio on it. I did find more with the 4:14 first gear but they were om the 88-92 models. When I found the one with the 5:72 I snatched it up. So I now have two complete sets off internal minus a good output shaft with 5:08 first gears if I decide to go back.