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  #1  
Old 10-30-2005, 04:49 AM
Clay ADAMS Clay ADAMS is offline
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Question Ford T&C 4 speed overdrive info

Gday guys.

I am researching the Ford T&C 4 speed overdrive trans for a project truck I am doing up. The only problem is they were never offered in any Australia vehicles so no one down here knows anything about them. And finding there common name has also casued problems as everbody calls them something different.

Advance Adaptors call them a Ford T&C 4 speed overdrive. I believe they are closely related to the top loader. But having and aluminimum housing and a tower (top mounted) shifter. Available in Ford Trucks from 82 to 87. I have also read them called, a Tremec 4 speed and a TOD.

My research has lead me to believe they are the same tranamission as the Jeep T176 which is also a Tremec 4 speed. The both have the same bolt patern and casting numbers. The only difference being that only the Ford ones were overdrive and the Jeeps were not.

I need to know if anyone knows if the housings are interchangeable. I want to use a Jeep T176 housing as it has the cross member mount on the housing and use the Ford internals as I what the overdrive.

Can anyone help? Any info on these boxes will be much appreciated.

Last edited by Clay ADAMS; 10-30-2005 at 05:34 AM. Reason: More info
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2005, 09:54 PM
85e150six4mtod 85e150six4mtod is offline
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85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation85e150six4mtod has a superb reputation
I have one, the side mounted linkage version. I checked a few things out recently.

First, these are patterned after the Ford toploader, but, according to most sources I've found, were made for Ford by Tremec. Someone here keeps saying the side mount version was made by Clark, but I doubt it. SMOD would be the Side Mount, the SROD is the Single Rail job, modified to have the internal rail shifter.

The Tremec 4 speed you refer to is completely different. I believe it is called the T4. Nothing interchangeable, although the mounting bolt pattern appears to be the same.

http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm

These are the Ford units.

Following is info on the Tremec.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge...on_gateway.htm

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t176.htm

Now that you are on this Novak site, you might be able to find a different trans, like the AX 15, that will work more better.

Good luck.
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Old 10-31-2005, 01:06 AM
Clay ADAMS Clay ADAMS is offline
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Thanks for getting back to me. I had come across those sites in my travells but it was this text below that made me think that the TOD and the T176 were both one in the same but with different ratios offered.

I know it would be ideal to put a 5 spd in but I just dont have the room. The floor would have to be majorly modified along with the drive shafts ect. If I use a Tremec 4 speed I can gain an overdrive without touching the floor and the Transfer case would move so slightly that the drive shaft slip yokes should haddle it.

And if I can use a T176 case which has a cross member mount I can get away with just drill 4 hole to move my mount. But if I use the TOD I will have to have extra reinforcing fabricated and welded on to support the cross member.

I am hoping the more time spent on the computer researching may mean less time time
paying someone big dollars to do modifications that could have be avoided.

Have a look below and tell me what you think.


http://www.5speeds.com/toploader.html

It is important to also know that truck versions of these transmissions exist and sometimes cannot be told apart by someone who is not knowledgable. They use larger front and rear bearings and a large front bearing retainer. They came in cast iron, the SROD alloy configuration and as a top cover shifted or tower shift design mainly in 4 wheel drive Broncos. The Jeep ratios were non overdrive and make great choices for custom ratio swaps in Ford Toploader applications requiring a low 1st gear. Jeeps were alloy tower shift style in 4 wheel and 2 wheel drive.
Ratio #1: 3.01 1st, 1.78 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.79 4th and 3.01 Rev.
Ratio #2: 3.25 1st, 1.92 2nd, 1.00 3rd, 0.78 4th and 3.25 Rev.
Jeep Ratio #1: 3.52 1st, 2.27 2nd, 1.46 3rd, 1.00 4th and 3.52 Rev.
Jeep Ratio #2: 3.82 1st, 2.29 2nd, 1.46 3rd, 1.00 4th and 3.82 Rev.
Jeep Ratio #3: 3.01 1st, 2.08 2nd, 1.47 3rd, 1.00 4th and 3.01 Rev.
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:52 PM
fordxxx fordxxx is offline
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Clay did you every find out if the T-170 and T-176 internals are interchangable?
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Old 03-21-2006, 06:34 AM
Clay ADAMS Clay ADAMS is offline
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Short answer. No I didnt. I did found out alot of info and am still learning but I didnt find out if the internals are interchangable. I did learn that a T176 top cover and shifter will bolt directly on a Ford Top Loader gearbox. All the signs point to yes but I guess we will never know until someone puts the two on the bench next to each other and has a go.

But as the overdrives were not avail down hear they are not easy to come by and bloody expensive if you can find one. The T176 is the same as there were very few of the Jeeps ever released. So at this stage it wont be me who finds out. I still think it would make a great box.

For now I am going to stick with the T15a. After I get it over the pits and licenced I plan to play with the diff ratios and look at a 4 speed to help me get of the mark. (Cant drop the diffs too low as the T15a is like taking off in second) Still want to achieve a good highway speed/economy.

Unrelated. I bought a twin stick shifter on EBAY from the states for my dana 20. Looks very nice. Have mock fitted it and all went well. Looking forward to getting it on and off the road but progress has been a bit slow lately. Still ticking over though just not as fast as I would like. Cant spend all my time in the garage. Got a wife and kids to keep happy.

Keep me posted if anyone has a go.

Clay
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Old 03-21-2006, 08:32 AM
fordxxx fordxxx is offline
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I don't think the cases will interchange between the TOD and theT-176 because there is an extra lever in the side of the TOD the reverses the action of the shifter fork. This is because 3rd gear is right and up and 4th is right and down while 3rd gear is straight through. Puting this extra lever in reverses the shifter action so when the shift lever is pulled down the fork goes back. The T-176 will not have provision for this in the case.
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:29 AM
fordxxx fordxxx is offline
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I guess you could use the Jeep case and shifter but then 3rd gear would be right and down and 4th would be right and up. It would take some getting used to.

The other thing you might be able to do is swap all of the T-176 gears over to the TOD case and use the T-176 shifter. You would end up with a closer ratio 4 speed with no OD. That is assuming the main shaft gears would swap over to the TOD output shaft. I have seen the T-176 and TOD counter shafts and countershaft gears and they look to be swappable. Also the centre to centre between countershaft and main shaft seem to be the same. The overall length of the cases also seems to be the same. That is what I want to do; change my 4 speed OD to close ratio.
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:29 AM
 
 
 
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