veggy oil... i just want your opinion...

johnny8 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 04:48 PM

ok... i know this has been disscussed alot on here, and i don't want a flame war.. but i would just like some opinions on using a gallon or two per tank of straight veggy oil, (clean new stuff right out of a bottle and done only in the summer months), as a "treatment" for regular diesel... from what i've read in here i think that doing this would provide some extra lubrication for the injectors and maybe make my mule run a little quieter.. i don't know if the veggy oil would mix well with the diesel fuel or not... but if it did... what would be the benefits of this...? what would be the downside...?

scole250 · #2 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 05:36 PM

I don't know anything about running straight veggie oil, but it costs around $6-$7 a gallon for cheap oil. I'd think something like Diesel Kleen would be cheaper.

johnny8 · #3 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scole250

I don't know anything about running straight veggie oil, but it costs around $6-$7 a gallon for cheap oil. I'd think something like Diesel Kleen would be cheaper.

ya.. you are right... i was just wondering what advantages their might be with the veggy oil...

Kwikkordead · #4 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 06:15 PM

My opinion on that is Bio-diesel is a much better additive than SVO. Reason being is that the glycerin that is present in the SVO gets down past the rings into the sump and turns the oil thick and stringy. Bio is a great lubricant for the injectors.

johnny8 · #5 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwikkordead

My opinion on that is Bio-diesel is a much better additive than SVO. Reason being is that the glycerin that is present in the SVO gets down past the rings into the sump and turns the oil thick and stringy. Bio is a great lubricant for the injectors.

i think you are spot on... only one problem... i would burn at least a quarter tank of fuel driving to where i can get some biodiesel... and a quarter tank driving back...!

Kwikkordead · #6 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 06:29 PM

That's too bad. I have at least 10 stations withing the Seattle area where I can go buy it. Trouble is they want $4.00-4.50 per gallon. No way am I going to pay that much!

johnny8 · #7 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwikkordead

That's too bad. I have at least 10 stations withing the Seattle area where I can go buy it. Trouble is they want $4.00-4.50 per gallon. No way am I going to pay that much!

just wondering kwik... is bio BETTER fuel to run in the psds...?

edub32 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 08:35 PM

I'm sure this has been answered before but, how are you guys mixing your diesel/wvo...? Do you have to mix it outside of your fuel tank or can you fill up with 15 gallons of diesel and then add 15 gallons of wvo?

johnny8 · #9 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edub32

I'm sure this has been answered before but, how are you guys mixing your diesel/wvo...? Do you have to mix it outside of your fuel tank or can you fill up with 15 gallons of diesel and then add 15 gallons of wvo?

there are a lot of posts on this in here... some guys have really interesting settups that allow them to switch over to wvo once their truck has warmed up, and switch back so that the truck in running on diesel once again when they shut it off... something about the wvo in the injectors when you shut it down is not good... they also preheat the wvo in the winter using engine heat so they can run wvo all year long... seems like quite the system to me... i was just wondering if there would be any bennefit to putting some straight veggy oil in my mule since it costs about the same as biodiesel does, but i can get it right down the street instead of driving halfway across the state to get some bio...

Kwikkordead · #10 (**permalink**) 07-28-2005, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny8

just wondering kwik... is bio BETTER fuel to run in the psds...?

It's getting that way IMO. The new standards for the low and ultra low sulfur fuel makes a pretty "dry" fuel to try and lubricate the injectors with. I hear that Bio has excellent lubricity and adding as little as 2% takes care of that problem.

jwbowen · #11 (**permalink**) 07-29-2005, 08:40 AM

SoCal,

You're right to want to use biodiesel, rather than SVO. As Kwik said. SVO has glycerine in it. Actually veg oil is molecules of glycerine each connecting three hydrocarbons (that's why veg oil's technical name is "triglyceride."). Each of the hydrocarbons is about the same molecular structure as diesel fuel.

Biodiesel is the product of chemically separating these hydrocarbons from the glycerine (called "transesterification") and removing the glycerine. If you burn SVO, you burn the hydrocarbons but not the glycerine, which decomposes into nasty things that do far more harm (especially to rings, pistons and cylinder walls) than the SVO could offset anywhere else.

But if you have a reasonable amount of mechanical aptitude, you don't have to spend the money these biodiesel kits cost. Go to http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html and read their stuff. There are several systems that they have made that you can duplicate. I made my first biodiesel in an old blender and subsequent batches in a 5-gasllon plastic bucket w/ cover, fitted w/ an old drill and paint stirrer as a mixer. Do this before you buy anything, just to be sure you want to be a backyard chemist.

My next unit is going to be a 5-MM plus gal./yr. operation, so you can see that I enjoyed the experience a lot.

Good luck.

arninetyes · #12 (**permalink**) 07-29-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalDieselFan

Or do you need the Heater in the tanks etc.... swithing to and fro w/ #2 diesel. Think southern california where avg temps year round here are 72* F

No - biodiesel is used just like petro-diesel. No heaters, no alterations to the vehicle at all.

The only climate issue with running biodiesel is that it will gel at a higher temp than will petrodiesel - and no, you will never encounter temperatures cold enough for that in SoCal - unless you are in Big Bear and they have record low temperatures one winter night.

johnny8 · #13 (**permalink**) 07-29-2005, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwbowen

SoCal,

You're right to want to use biodiesel, rather than SVO. As Kwik said. SVO has glycerine in it. Actually veg oil is molecules of glycerine each connecting three hydrocarbons (that's why veg oil's technical name is "triglyceride."). Each of the hydrocarbons is about the same molecular structure as diesel fuel.

Biodiesel is the product of chemically separating these hydrocarbons from the glycerine (called "transesterification") and removing the glycerine. If you burn SVO, you burn the hydrocarbons but not the glycerine, which decomposes into nasty things that do far more harm (especially to rings, pistons and cylinder walls) than the SVO could offset anywhere else.

But if you have a reasonable amount of mechanical aptitude, you don't have to spend the money these biodiesel kits cost. Go to http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html and read their stuff. There are several systems that they have made that you can duplicate. I made my first biodiesel in an old blender and subsequent batches in a 5-gasllon plastic bucket w/ cover, fitted w/ an old drill and paint stirrer as a mixer. Do this before you buy anything, just to be sure you want to be a backyard chemist.

My next unit is going to be a 5-MM plus gal./yr. operation, so you can see that I enjoyed the experience a lot.

Good luck.

if you do so.. please take lots of pics.... i would like to see what you are putting together..!

SoCalDieselFan · #14 (**permalink**) 07-29-2005, 09:01 PM

Damn boys ... w/ Dino Diesel upwards of $2.71 per / gal - this make your own Biodiesel shizzle is better than viagra! LOL - well sorta ....

Me and the gang are big time do it yourselfers with just about every needed tool. Would love to convert the whole family to Biodiesel and Flip MECCA the single digit salute averytime I fill er up!

Hows the collection process working for you other "chemists"? Where and how are ya getting your base materials? Is it really $.70 per gallon or can you get that down cheaper. My brother in law owns many out of state What A Burgers, and extended family owns 26 McDonalds - was wondering if it might be worthwhile to haul a trailer out to them ever so often. Or - in SoCal we have more restaurants than people - are the ma & pop greasy spoons the best to hit up as far as actually getting their WVO? My local Sushi chef loves me and the wife. Gots some other folks that own Chineese joints that probably would hook me up with their waste. Seriously - just how feasible is it?

edub32 · #15 (**permalink**) 07-30-2005, 10:19 AM

Heres my .02: This winter I'm hopefully going to build my own veggy system. I'm going to get an semi truck fuel tank and put it in the bed. This tank will be for the veg oil and the other tank will be dino. The stock tank will be only used for startup and shutdown. I'm going to heat the veg oil using a heat exchanger and extending the engine coolant lines back to the bed. I'll then get a tank selector off of an older ford and use that to switch between tanks. Will I need to get another fuel pump for the veggy oil tank or can I use the one I have now for both tanks...? Will the heat exchanger be enough to heat the oil to 170* or higher..??

Thanks any ideas or anything would be appreciated