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  #1  
Old 06-27-2005, 11:28 AM
jdmorg jdmorg is offline
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Questions about Biodiesel and business

Hey all...I've been sneaking around in here for a little bit, and am in awe. I didn't realize how far along fuel efficiency and pollution controls have gotten.

Well..here's my idea, with questions to follow. I live in a hipster area of the city. Great part of town, really nice people, even if we can't see eye to eye on a lot of things. Within this part of town, there are a lot of restaraunts. Now with this type of crowd, the environment and fuel efficiency are a big deal. I've noticed a lot of gas powered cars, but there are still some diesel guys about.

How about opening a shop that did the conversions and made the fuel?
What options are there for gasoline engines?
How difficult is this deisel conversion?
Are there a lot of regulations involved?

Am I way off base here? I've only recently become curious about Biodiesel and alternatives, so as far as I know, I'm pipedreaming. How reasonable is this?
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2005, 05:51 PM
broken wire broken wire is offline
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My friend, It has come to the point of not being a pipedream at all. Biodiesel has come to a reality, in a short period of time you are likely to see Biodiesel pumps by themselves setting beside diesel pumps as are some already being stated as B5 sold right now. That is 5% Biodiesel with 95% diesel fuel as a mix. When you use Biodiesel in a diesel application or home heating, there is no conversions necessary to make the engine run, if you want top performance out of Biodiesel, then a few short modifications can be made but Biodiesel can be used 100% without the mixing with Dino oil at all. The regulations have all been done through chemistry and ASTM 6751 certification. This standard meets the Governments wants. All of the harmfull components in Dino oil are left behind when switched to Biodiesel except for the NOX which can be delt with through injection timing,
So pull up to the pump and fill-er up with Biodiesel, if you have a diesel vehicle.
Smells like a Bar-B-Que coming out the tailpipe.
Gasoline help, no help, just what the manufactures offer and keeping the engine in tune, tires filled with air and pointing straight, driving the size of vehicle you need to drive.
I don't have any information on the conversion kits that let you pull up to the restaraunt and fillup with used fryer oil.
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:28 PM
MasterTrim MasterTrim is offline
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To answer your questions,

How about opening a shop that did the conversions and made the fuel?

There are some here's one: http://frybrid.com/test.htm check it out, they have a great forum! But, read what they had to say about selling bio: http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthr...hlight=frybrid

What options are there for gasoline engines? 2 1) use unleaded 2) Walk

How difficult is this diesel conversion? Not very.

Are there a lot of regulations involved? Sure there are, you can check out some info here: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb....6864#580606864
feel free to search for specific ?'s. I wanted to link a specific one I read but couldn't find it. Oooh, hold on, found it: http://www.frybrid.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5

Am I way off base here? That maybe a personal issue but, in this case I don't think so.

I've only recently become curious about Biodiesel and alternatives, so as far as I know, I'm pipedreaming. How reasonable is this? That is the question... I think it depends on how amibitious you are. You can see from the links it can be done. No small undertaking though.
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Old 06-27-2005, 11:00 PM
whowey whowey is offline
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First, local regulations vary from place to place so you need to check YOUR local statutes, not what a group of people on the internet say.


Is the diesel conversion to what hard??? To run a Bio mix.. There isn't a conversion needed. To run SVO, the conversion isn't hard. Hipsters probably aren't the best crowd to market this to though. They typically don't want the added hassle that owning and operating a SVO vehicle requires. These are the people that really think a hybrid getting 40mpg, is so much better than a 35mpg sedan made 5 years ago.

As far as gasoline motors, you could always convert to run on ethanol, but there isn't a 'drop-in' kit to do it, and it is extremely involved.


I put a GreaseCar kit on a car for a lady that works with my wife. It only took me and a helper one day to install it, and the better part of another to get it all adjusted and working correctly. She kept the car about six months, forgot to switch back to Petro before shutting the car off at work and clogged the entire works. I had the car at the farm shop for about a week cleaning everything out. That was it for her. Now she has a Prius, and gets about 40 or 45 MPG, and thinks she is doing a great favor to the world. Competely ignoring the fact that thing is going to need those big batteries serviced.
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Old 06-28-2005, 03:00 PM
jdmorg jdmorg is offline
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Thanks for your help guys. It was just a thought. I drive about 45,000 miles a year, so I have an idea for everything.

This kind of started with arguments with some of the uninformed mass who thought that hydrogen was just around the corner, electric and battery was the way to go until then, and fossil fuels should be phased out of EVERYTHING, not just cars. It was cute, and the music was good at the bar, so occassionally in between versus I would say, "yup....me too....I agree....you're right" so as to not let them onto the fact that I really wasn't listening. The droning on and on normally gets louder then, and then I can't enjoy a beer OR the music. But, like I said, I think that they're the type of people in the type of neighborhood that would flock to this kind of thing....I just don't know too much about it right now.

BTW---What are these:

SVO?
NOX?
Dino?

The conversion I was talking about was diesel to biodiesel, not gasoline to diesel. (that's how I interpreted what you meant when you said "not very" when I asked). Is it as simple as tossing in a gallon of home-made biodiesel into the fuel tank of a diesel engined vehicle?

The grease-kit car: What do you mean when you say, 'switch back to Petro before turning off the car'?


Thanks again guys.
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Old 06-28-2005, 05:39 PM
whowey whowey is offline
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Sorry,I didn't explain things better, and I kinda rambled into techspeak


SVO is Straight Vegtable Oil
NOX is Nitrous Oxide(the pollutant, not the dental gas or fuel additive)
Dino is plain old ordinary pump diesel. Crude oil is basically decomposed plant and animal matter.

There isn't a conversion needed to run a regular diesel on a Bio mix. You are starting to see mixes of B2-B5 appear at pumps in the farming regions now. You can pump it right into the tank like nothing is different. When I type B2, that refers to the percentage of Bio to diesel. So B2 is 2% Bio/98% Dino.

If you use a new vehicle in your switch, you will never notice a difference. But if you use a vehicle with some milage on it, you will probably have to do a few fuel filter changes at the beginning. Biodiesel is slightly more solvent than straight dino, and it will break down the deposits in the fuel system.



The GreaseCar kit, is the style of what many people use for the 'resturant grease' fuel idea.

It invovles a second fuel tank, with a heat exchanger in it. The vehicle starts on regular diesel, and when the second tank reaches about 170 degrees, you flip a selenoid switch and start pumping the Vegtable Oil straight into the motor. When you go to shut the system down, if you don't switch back over to the Dino diesel and let it run long enough to get the injector pump and injectors full of dino, the Vegtable oil will cool, and can get too thick for the pump to handle. This may not be a problem in all climates, but I live in the Upper Midwest, so it is a real concern here. A side note, this system works with indirect injection motors, so far I haven't heard of anyone getting it to work satisfactorily on a direct injection motor, like those currently used by Ford. VW still uses the IDI motors, and are probably the favorite of convertors. The setup I installed was on a new Bug.
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Old 06-28-2005, 07:50 PM
MasterTrim MasterTrim is offline
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whowey: You say your from the upper midwest? Where abouts. I'm in central MN.
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Old 06-28-2005, 09:35 PM
whowey whowey is offline
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Your certainly more Upper than me. I am in Northwestern Illinois.
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Old 07-29-2005, 09:52 AM
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jwbowen jwbowen is offline
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Whowey,

Isn't the diesel VW has been making in recent years a direct injection motor? They call it a "TDI," which I assumed meant "turbo direct injection."
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Old 07-31-2005, 05:30 PM
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bigredtruckmi bigredtruckmi is offline
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check out www.biodiesel.org for information n this but they did list Manhelm, Pa
Export, PA. Eddystone, Pa. as having Biodiesel dealers (fuel at pump)
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Old 07-31-2005, 05:30 PM
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