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Old 06-20-2005, 12:42 PM
Native_Tex Native_Tex is offline
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Smile Integrated Traile Brake Problems

I have been having error problems with my 05 King Ranch brake controller when pulling my 5th wheel. I have been to the RV dealer for a check of the coach. Some loose connections and cord replacement was said to have been the fix. However, still getting a 'trailer fault' and 'trailer disconnected' message when towing. I have heard there are problems that could be in the controller. Has anyone seen this problem?

Thanks!

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Old 06-20-2005, 01:32 PM
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Welcome to the site!

See if a fellow RV'er will let you plug their trailer into your truck. If it lights up with an error, then it's likely an issue with the TBC and you should take it to a Ford service center. If their trailer lights up "green", then you know your RV still has issues.
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Old 07-01-2005, 08:51 AM
Toisich Toisich is offline
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Yes, we're having troubles also....

Here's the scenario... I have a 2005 Ford F350 Super Duty with the integrated brake controller which I use to pull two different trailers. Trailer #1 is a 2004 Haulmark 8.5x12 enclosed motorcycle trailer equipped with dual Dexter axles with electronic brakes. Trailer #2 is a 2005 Jayco Designer equipped with dual Dexter axles with electronic brakes. I've pulled the Haulmark over 8000 miles without any problems. However, with the Jayco I keep getting the "Check Trailer" and "Trailer Fault" error messages and the visual on the controller face shows the red trailer indicating bad or lost connectivity with the trailer. All lights on the Jayco are functional -- brake and turn signal, and I can manually activate the trailer brakes.

I called my Ford Dealership and explained all of this with them and they quickly pointed to a problem with the Jayco, especially since the Haulmark works fine.

Next, talked to my Jayco dealer who didn't know what to think as to what the problem was; first time he's experienced this type of situation. We confirmed the Jayco 7-pin writing is correct. He too thought that since I have another trailer with Dexter axles and electronic brakes that work fine with the truck that there may be a problem with the Jayco. However, I expressed that I'm assuming the dealership would not deliver a defective Jayco and the dealer delivery rep did not report a problem, and that it was assumed the delivery rep was using an electronic brake controller, that everything was in working order upon delivery -- the Jayco had not left the property since the December delivery until May when we discovered this problem. What is not known, is if the normal after-market controller would recognize a problem with the electronic brakes as might the Ford integrated controller. Ford also hinted at this as the Ford integrated controller is, according to Ford, more sophisticated than a normal after-market brand and integrated with various braking components as well as the on-board computer. Hence, it may detect a problem with the electronic brakes that an after-market controller might not.

Next, called Dexter Axle and talked to their technician. He stated the axle and electronic brake system on the Haulmark is identical in design as that on the Jayco, only smaller. Mechanically, they work the same. As the Haulmark trailer worked perfectly with the 2005 Ford, he believed there may be a short in the Jayco causing the error. He walked me through some of the technical aspects, to include how to check the electronic brakes, but as it seemed above my electrical expertise, he recommended I take the Jayco to the nearest dealer.

Next, called the nearest Jayco Dealer (not the selling dealership) and talked to them. The service rep took it all in and agreed they should check it out. Took the Jayco in and the technician couldn't find anything wrong with the Jayco. They hooked their text kit to the Ford and the Ford controller immediately recognized the hook-up and showed all green. The tech did notice the low output and said it appeared the Ford's output "pulsed" at rest. Yet, I still got errors when the Jayco was hooked up. He next tested the Jayco brake system with their brake test kit and the brakes worked fine. So, according to the text kits, the Ford's brake controller is working correctly and Jayco's brakes are working correctly. But together they aren't.

In researching this problem, others have referred me to Ford Special Service Message 18537 which discussed that pre-March 2005 controllers did not put out a full 12-volts at speeds below 15-mph; post-March 2005 controllers were modified to provide a full 12-volt output at all times. They even said Ford was replacing the early controllers upon request. However, when I discussed this with my Ford Dealership they had no knowledge of SSM 18537 and could not find it on their computer. He did find another, which he sent to me, which stated that if the error message said "check trailer" then it wasn't the IBC.

I'm stumped. My inclination is to point the finger at the Ford Controller thinking its an output voltage issue but Ford says it appears to be working fine and they have no knowledge of the SSM. Would like to have the actual text SSM 18537, or a copy of the document if anyone has it.

Your thoughts are welcomed.....
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Old 07-01-2005, 10:27 AM
Chris_in_Texas Chris_in_Texas is offline
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You might give this a try and look at the broadcast messages. I have mine in for the same thing, but don't know the outcome yet.

Chris




2005 F-Series Super Duty Factory Trailer Brake Controller Tips: Diagnosis procedures for the Towcommand system is in the workshop manual, section 206-10, Auxiliary Brake System. All voltage tests sould be made with the controller at the maximum gain setting of 10.0. Brake controller output voltage increases with vehicle speed. In park with the controller fully applied manualy, the output voltage on trucks built before 3-23-05 should be greater than 1-3 volts; after 3-23-05 greater than 10-12 volts. Controller output with the brake pedal is the same for either build dates. Full voltage is only available above 15 MPH. The Towcommand system works in both forward and reverse. Broadcast Message 3286, 4312.
When installing an aftermarket controller on trucks equiped with a factory installed controller, the factory one must be left intact and the aftermarket controller installed separately. Broadcast Message 3332, 4080.
The Towcommand system is ment to only work with electric trailer brakes and not surge or electric over hydraulic brake systems. Broadcast Message 3179.
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Old 09-29-2005, 01:00 PM
handg handg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toisich
Yes, we're having troubles also....

Here's the scenario... I have a 2005 Ford F350 Super Duty with the integrated brake controller which I use to pull two different trailers. Trailer #1 is a 2004 Haulmark 8.5x12 enclosed motorcycle trailer equipped with dual Dexter axles with electronic brakes. Trailer #2 is a 2005 Jayco Designer equipped with dual Dexter axles with electronic brakes. I've pulled the Haulmark over 8000 miles without any problems. However, with the Jayco I keep getting the "Check Trailer" and "Trailer Fault" error messages and the visual on the controller face shows the red trailer indicating bad or lost connectivity with the trailer. All lights on the Jayco are functional -- brake and turn signal, and I can manually activate the trailer brakes.

I called my Ford Dealership and explained all of this with them and they quickly pointed to a problem with the Jayco, especially since the Haulmark works fine.

Next, talked to my Jayco dealer who didn't know what to think as to what the problem was; first time he's experienced this type of situation. We confirmed the Jayco 7-pin writing is correct. He too thought that since I have another trailer with Dexter axles and electronic brakes that work fine with the truck that there may be a problem with the Jayco. However, I expressed that I'm assuming the dealership would not deliver a defective Jayco and the dealer delivery rep did not report a problem, and that it was assumed the delivery rep was using an electronic brake controller, that everything was in working order upon delivery -- the Jayco had not left the property since the December delivery until May when we discovered this problem. What is not known, is if the normal after-market controller would recognize a problem with the electronic brakes as might the Ford integrated controller. Ford also hinted at this as the Ford integrated controller is, according to Ford, more sophisticated than a normal after-market brand and integrated with various braking components as well as the on-board computer. Hence, it may detect a problem with the electronic brakes that an after-market controller might not.

Next, called Dexter Axle and talked to their technician. He stated the axle and electronic brake system on the Haulmark is identical in design as that on the Jayco, only smaller. Mechanically, they work the same. As the Haulmark trailer worked perfectly with the 2005 Ford, he believed there may be a short in the Jayco causing the error. He walked me through some of the technical aspects, to include how to check the electronic brakes, but as it seemed above my electrical expertise, he recommended I take the Jayco to the nearest dealer.

Next, called the nearest Jayco Dealer (not the selling dealership) and talked to them. The service rep took it all in and agreed they should check it out. Took the Jayco in and the technician couldn't find anything wrong with the Jayco. They hooked their text kit to the Ford and the Ford controller immediately recognized the hook-up and showed all green. The tech did notice the low output and said it appeared the Ford's output "pulsed" at rest. Yet, I still got errors when the Jayco was hooked up. He next tested the Jayco brake system with their brake test kit and the brakes worked fine. So, according to the text kits, the Ford's brake controller is working correctly and Jayco's brakes are working correctly. But together they aren't.

In researching this problem, others have referred me to Ford Special Service Message 18537 which discussed that pre-March 2005 controllers did not put out a full 12-volts at speeds below 15-mph; post-March 2005 controllers were modified to provide a full 12-volt output at all times. They even said Ford was replacing the early controllers upon request. However, when I discussed this with my Ford Dealership they had no knowledge of SSM 18537 and could not find it on their computer. He did find another, which he sent to me, which stated that if the error message said "check trailer" then it wasn't the IBC.

I'm stumped. My inclination is to point the finger at the Ford Controller thinking its an output voltage issue but Ford says it appears to be working fine and they have no knowledge of the SSM. Would like to have the actual text SSM 18537, or a copy of the document if anyone has it.

Your thoughts are welcomed.....
Toisich or Chris_In_Texas,

Hi, New user here. We are having the same problem with our new '06 F350 and 5th Wheel trailer. Anyone find a resolution yet? Would like some idea where to start. Trailer brakes are electric so should work correctly with the tow command system. Getting the red trailer blinking and beeping occassionly or many times during towing. Please help if you can.
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Old 09-29-2005, 01:46 PM
tmwilson tmwilson is offline
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mine did the same thing it would say trailer fault whenever you hit the brakes and sometimes trailer disconnect but the lights would work fine and this was on a brand new trailer so I hooked a buddy of mine trailer up to it and it worked perfect so I traced my brake wires from the tongue back to the axles and found out that one of the wires had been pinched in half and the other was smashed inbetween the trailer floor and the side frame after I spliced the wires back together everything worked perfect.
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Old 09-30-2005, 01:23 PM
handg handg is offline
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tmwilson,

Thanks for the reply. We believe we have traced it also to a trailer problem. Will have the 5th wheel at the dealers on Monday.
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Old 10-12-2005, 05:20 AM
ymmv ymmv is offline
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Sounds like people with the same symptoms coming from different problems.
One thing I've found on recent model tow vehicles is the passive/active circuit test (that brings up the error light if a light is blown or a circuit, fuse is open) can interfere with the brake controller. The Prodigy is notoriously too smart for its own good in this way sometimes -- still a great, great controller, but might not work in some vehicles because of the way the lamp test occurs. The work-around can be to use a different, less intelligent controller. Some people have reported using LED tail-light "loads" (a small circuit that loads a flasher so that an LED flashes ... normally these things draw so little current a capacitor clicker won't work) but I haven't found a solution personally -- trying a cheaper/less intelligence controller would be a worthwhile test.

Also, if you have a truck or a trailer that's malfunctioning, as a rule, don't go plugging it into another vehicle or trailer to test it ... you can easily damage the second vehicle/trailer and just have more work on your hands ... always start from first principles and test with a meter and a knowledge of the wiring of the given vehicle ... this negates any useful results from exposing another vehicle or trailer to a wiring fault, over-voltage, pulsing surge etc. etc.
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Old 10-12-2005, 09:27 AM
Scott S Scott S is offline
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I am having the same problem with my 05, I have 6 different trailers and I have the Trailer Fault and disconnect messages with two of them. I am waiting for the arrival of an 06 DRW so I will see if I have the same problem or if it is the 05 brake contoller, which was an early build.
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Old 10-12-2005, 09:42 AM
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We have had the 5th wheel at the dealer's for 2 days last week 10/3 & 4. They said they couldn't find anything wrong. 5th wheel dealer still points at the Truck and Ford says it's a trailer problem. Just got back from a 5 day trip. The beep, flash, trailer disconnect message happen 20 times 1st day, 2 times the 2nd day, trailer sat for 3 days and the problem never happened on the trip home. We are at a lost as what to do next. Truck is a 2006 F350 DRW.
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Old 10-12-2005, 04:35 PM
Scott S Scott S is offline
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That does not make me feel better...lol. I called to day and the truck was shipped on Monday. So I should have it next week. I'll keep you posted.
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Old 10-12-2005, 05:12 PM
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My trailer control worked fine, then one day showed disconnected. Put vasiline on the contacts of the trailer harness and it has been fine ever since. I did have a problem with the module. The gain wouldn't add or subtract. Dealer replaced module. everything fine
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Old 10-13-2005, 07:26 AM
Toisich Toisich is offline
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The final chapter concerning our 5th wheel and Ford Integrated Brake Controller....

We had a total disaster with the Maryland dealer who said he fixed the electronic brakes on our 2005 Jayco, only to find out I still get the "trailer fault" and "trailer disconnect" messages immediately after hooking up to take her home. The tech started "trouble shooting" only to report there is nothing wrong with the Ford, and there is nothing wrong with the Jayco. Yet, no brakes. Since we were "moving into" the Jayco after selling the house, pending our relocation to Indiana, we had no choice but to bring the Jayco home. The tow/haul mode of the Ford and the fact I could still manually activate the Jayco brakes would just have to do.

We relocated to Indiana and made arrangements to take the Jayco back to the factory. The Jayco technician found a short in the brake wiring at the rear axle and totally rewired the electronic brakes. All is well as I now get "green" on the integrated brake controller and the brakes work fine. When I made the appointment, Jayco wondered why I was willing to drive 130 miles vice going to a dealer just 30 miles down the road. After explaining my Maryland dealer experience, and stating I want the brakes fixed this time and if Jayco couldn't do it, they would have to engage Dexter Axle (who is just down the road), but bottom line, it would be fixed.

I'm not convinced dealers have the experience to deal with the electronic brakes and to trace down a wiring issue. After my troubles, I just don't have the confidence in the dealers. Jayco did an excellent job with this problem, as well as a couple of others, and they were very quick about it.

Good luck.
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Old 10-13-2005, 07:41 AM
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Since I am in Maryland and do tow a 5th wheel, I sure would like you to name that Maryland RV dealer that I shouldn't take my trailer to for ANY repairs.
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Old 10-13-2005, 10:11 AM
Toisich Toisich is offline
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While I normally don't like naming specific establishments unless its to praise their efforts or services, but in this case I'll make an exception due to the rudeness and lackadaisical attitude of the service manager and their inability to fix even the most simplest problem i.e. a leaking tire.

Chesaco RV had our 5th wheel for two weeks to fix two warranty-covered problems: (1) the electronic brakes, and (2) tire losing 30lbs of air per week. When we went back to pick the 5th wheel up, we were told the electronic brakes were fixed; however, the "technician" didn't have time to fix the tire -- "He had other things to do" said the service manager. Come to find out the electronic brakes weren't fixed either. This is after calling Chesaco RV to see if the work was done - was told yes - and traveling 130 miles to pick up the unit.

When we hooked-up and found the brakes were still faulty the technician played a little with his test kits. Hooked up to the Ford - all okay; hooked up to the Jayco - could activate the brake-away system. According to him, all okay. It was getting a little late in the afternoon so he just packed up his stuff and walked back inside leaving my wife and I in the lot with a broken RV. The manager then came out and said they've done all they could do and went back inside. By this time we were so pisxxxx we just packed up and left.

Back to the service manager... while we were there we watched him interact with customers at the service counter and by phone. In just about all cases, no, let me rephrase that, in all cases he was about as rude as we've ever seen an individual in the service industry be toward customers. Basically, he just didn't care about your product related problems; He had a "just go away and leave me alone" attitude.

I wouldn't trust Chesaco to fix my kids trike!
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Old 10-13-2005, 10:11 AM
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