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Old 05-17-2005, 10:25 AM
dgarzoli dgarzoli is offline
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Water & propane injection how & why it works?

OK newbie question here.......Inot into hot rodding my PSD but I see many of you are. I am a pretty good mechanic and am interested in mechanical stuff.
So here is my questions:

What is water injection.....how and why does it work?

Propane......How and why ?



thanks!
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Old 05-17-2005, 10:48 AM
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water injection cools the temp down. propane acts like nos in a way.
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Old 05-17-2005, 11:06 AM
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Water injection essentially removes heat from the incoming air charge by vaporizing partially in the intake. With a high heat of vaporization, during this process it equalizes the incoming water temperature and air temperature together from thermal equlibrium, locking much of the energy up into the water vapor during the process. What isn't vaporized will become vaporized within the cylinder during compression, and in turn your EGT's drop because the water essentially traps the waste heat energy, condenses it, and passes it out the exhaust. Along with the EGT reduction, the vaporization and heat absorption helps to lower peak cylinder pressures directly following the injector firing event, while maintaining the slightly lower peak for a longer time. In turn, you get a smoother, longer power stroke for more overall torque with a lower peak pressure (in theory, reducing load on both bottom end engine components and head gasket seals).
You can add methanol to the mixture- methanol has an even higher heat of vaporization than water and will subtract more heat from in the incoming intake charge, however the methanol is also a fuel, which will raise temperature during the firing event. The point of diminishing returns (as far as EGT's go) is around 25-30% depending upon engine load- a higher meth mixture will start raising the EGT (from the lowest point previously) proportionally with more meth. The alchohol will also combust during compression prior to fuel delivery from the injector- the overall effect this has is proportional to the amount of meth in the cylinder, and must be considered in most timing calculations along with the injector timing. If not, you get this-
Click the image to open in full size.


Propane is nothing more than adding fuel. It has a different burn rate than diesel (faster) and burns partially before the main combustion event (once again, back to the chemical timing issue). The benefits are that it is cleaner, and the faster combustion and added fuel will add decent power. It will raise peak cylinder pressures, however, and correspondingly the EGT's. IMO it is far safer, and more effective to add diesel from tuning and simply forget the propane. It does work as claimed, for the most part.
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Old 05-17-2005, 12:47 PM
powershotone powershotone is offline
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Propane fumigation in a diesel truck is used to help assist in a more complete combustion of the diesel fuel. The result of this more complete burn is added power,torque and increased mileage. It is not really the propane making the power, but what it is doing to the diesel.

While you are technically adding a fuel with propane, the key is to not add very much so you are burning the propane completely and more of the diesel fuel along with it. Using a small controlled amount, EGT's are actulally reduced, not a great deal, but by about 50-100 degrees.

Propane was intened as to be used for extra towing power and mileage increases, not as a maximum power adder, while the power is like nitrous, it should not be used like nitrous. A little is good, more doesn't mean better or more power.
Using too much of any fuel, #2, water/meth, propane can cause problems.

This article about water injection is geared towards cars. water inection
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Old 05-17-2005, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powershotone
Propane fumigation in a diesel truck is used to help assist in a more complete combustion of the diesel fuel. The result of this more complete burn is added power,torque and increased mileage. It is not really the propane making the power, but what it is doing to the diesel.

While you are technically adding a fuel with propane, the key is to not add very much so you are burning the propane completely and more of the diesel fuel along with it. Using a small controlled amount, EGT's are actulally reduced, not a great deal, but by about 50-100 degrees.

Propane was intened as to be used for extra towing power and mileage increases, not as a maximum power adder, while the power is like nitrous, it should not be used like nitrous. A little is good, more doesn't mean better or more power.
Using too much of any fuel, #2, water/meth, propane can cause problems.

This article about water injection is geared towards cars. water inection
Well said

Did you see an EGT drop with the propane?

My TorquePro kicks the temp up a little when its on, but I'm sure my flow is set quite a bit higher than yours.
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:02 PM
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Im glad this topic came up. i was just about to ask about it. I am looking for strickly performance mod, not for towing, what one would be best? I read a couple posts that water injection is a pretty easy mod.

For water, you could use widheild washer fluid? Since it has methanol? Yes or no? Where do you mount the cylinders for eaither or. i dont want to mount in my bed because I haul my quad or street bike sometimes in the back.
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:54 PM
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http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/sh...anol+injection



water injection with WWF is far safer than having a big tank of flammable pressurized gas strapped to ur truck.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:09 PM
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I thought rods were longer then that
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:10 PM
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those are "modified" for RACING purposes.........
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eclipse conversion,
summit "k&n"
exhaust
ZOODAD mod
water/meth injection,
predator
no mo egr
just try to keep up....
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:16 PM
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OK now I understand...the short stroke version.....figure the kid is making a new configuration...
You got to love his effort at pushing the edge…his dad has got to hate all the paper weights he has on his desk….most kids give dad a tie….Matt gives him…..parts…little tiny parts
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:14 PM
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bighoss550 where is stoneboro, PA? Anywhere close to Pittsburgh. i read a lot of your past posts last nite. You seem to know what your talking about! I would love any information you could give me on water injection. Can my tranny handle the added torque from my tuner and water injection? I am finally putting on my exhaust on this weekend (torbo back).

Thanks everyone
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittsburgh-05HD
bighoss550 where is stoneboro, PA? You seem to know what your talking about! Can my tranny handle the added torque from my tuner and water injection?
u have mapquest?? its just northeast of mercer

all i know is educated guesses from experience

and i tow around up to 28,000lbs behind my little 550 with the predator on 65hp mode and the water injection tank filled with a 20% meth mix...... even at 37,500lbs gross, it will pick up speed on the hills on the pa t-pike and it doesnt hurt a thing...... if ud like to go for a ride sometime, let me know
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exhaust
ZOODAD mod
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Old 05-18-2005, 09:00 AM
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who mkaes complete kits for water injection? I rather not piece things together.
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Old 05-18-2005, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittsburgh-05HD
who mkaes complete kits for water injection? I rather not piece things together.
Diesel Performance Specialists, Snow Performance, and Aquamist.
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Old 05-18-2005, 09:41 AM
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thanks, anyone you woulr reccomend over the others
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Old 05-18-2005, 09:41 AM
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