Paul

The mid-engine mount might just correct the front end, but I don't think motor twist is causing the rendezvous with the wall. I'm not referring to a slight bobble. I've seen them violently and suddenly change course. Usually on the front third of the track. Here's my suspicion I had going into this thread. When you run big power and slicks, the frame may be twisting laterally to a quite significant degree. One guy may get even push from both wheels, the next guy does not. Add to that, in many cases we got somebody attempting to panic steer out of this with a stock steering box and perhaps even a smaller than stock steering wheel. A four link rear might help, but I don't think that's a given.

Anyone think this theory has any merit?

 

I surfed over to the MEL site to see what's new. If I got my data right, the MEL uses the same lifters as an FE. There are aftermarket FE roller lifters available. Some guys are converting their MEL's to roller cam. Wow.

In re; the frame, I think the bigger F series trucks have beefier frames. I'd want to start with that frame and then box it. But then you get into a vicious circle; bigger, heavier frame, needs a bigger engine, round and round you go. Might as well stay with the y-block and tune the heck out of it.

 

Removing ALL of the tendency to twist, 4 link and balancing the load on this relativelty short coupled hotrod truck would help keep it off the wall. Maybe Sam will check in with why he runs an unsprung rearend. Not too sure about lateral torsion... but big HP can make some interesting physics effects on the dragstrip.

boy hotrodder, himmelberg

 

Sam,

I'd be happy with high 10s/low 11s. The aerodynamics are like a barn door & the CG is too high to want much more, without doing mods I don't want to do. I like the way it looks & don't really want a Pro Modified. If I want to go faster, and I probably will, given my history, I'll go to the SN95 chassis like everybody else & their mother.

Paul,

A MEL website? I had no idea. I knew about Rick Martin (think that's his name) but thought he was fairly unique. What's the address?

I was thinking today at work (not much else to do when you're covered in ancient insulation dating from before the First World War) about the last MEL I saw. I seem to remember it had excessive bore wear, which I attributed to the odd chamber style. I also remember fairly small ports/valves, which makes sense considering the intended use, and if I recall, the intake port aims at the cylinder wall. I wonder if they would support 500+ CI without choking it. This is all from ancient memory so I could be way off. I also remember the intake was fairly appalling like a lot of the primitive 4 bbls. I remember seeing 6-Stromberg intakes from Weiand, I think, but that's about it. Also a blower intake. I'll have to do a little research. It certainly would be different!

Chassis thoughts: If you look at an early Camaro or equivalent year Nova, the unibody structure is very weak & flexible. The subframes are held on with tissue paper & the rear suspension is fairly miserable, even more so on the lowly Nova, which uses the lowest quality parts GM could dig up. Yet, by anyone's standards, they can be made to work, and work well. So, I'm not quite certain the frame is the whole key to the problem with the Effie. I still have to go back to the fact of (like it or not) driver error. Most people who are serious Ford racers are not going to pick this truck, for all the reasons we've discussed. So, it is a possibility that most of the people "driving the truck" are not qualified to do so, especially with a more unpredictable vehicle. I guess that's what I was getting at in my first post. Yes, I'm a long-winded so & so.

 

"So, it is a possibility that most of the people "driving the truck" are not qualified to do so"

I could buy that if the percentages supported it. But I see hundreds of "low end" subframe chassis go down the strip, 95% + without incident. Yet at least half the fast Effies I see have a wild ride. Doesn't add up. Arguing as usual, I don't have the definitive answer here. The only thing else I see with this consistently bad result is the ultra short wheelbase full custom drag cars with a good power to weight ratio.

 

If I was going to run low 11's or high 10's with an F-100... I'd:

1) box the entire frame

2) Build a stout cage that welds to the frame via "outriggers". And outrigger is a piece of square tubing (I'd use 2 x 4 .125 wall) tubing that goes through the outer frame rail and welds to the inner boxing plate.

3) Run a knee bar under the dash that ties the two forward cage bars together, and then two bars that go through the firewall and attach to the front of the frame, just behind the core support.

4) If you really like the solid front axle... keep it... run dropped springs, suspension limiting straps, normal shocks, and a cross steer steering box to limit bump steer... maybe disc brakes...

5) rebuild EVERYTHING in the front end... and think about making polyurethane buchings for the shackles and springs.

6) side mount motor mounts are fine, with a standard trans mount... but as added insurance, you might want to run a motor plate and a mid plate... you can buy them from someone like Art Morrison or even Summit or Jegs I think. With these, you will need to make strut rods so the motor does not move backward during hard acceleration.

7) for the rear, I'd just go with a standard ladder bar set up with your stock leaf springs... you will need leaf spring "floaters" from someone like Art Morrison or Chris Alstons Chassis Works... If you got the bucks, just buy their complete rear ladder bar kit with coil overs and have them set you up with the right springs for a drag truck.... I like the leaf spring idea though... you can put a little tub in the bed to accept a 10.5W mickey thompson slick... and be on the track sooner.

With the cage, you might think about some sort of bar to the back where the ladder bars mount and to where the coils mount... I don't like to see bars out the back window, so maybe just make them exit under the top edge of the bed...

8) Put a tannau cover on the bed... build it as a hard one out of aluminum, with an aluminum frame, then have it covered in material...

9) Build a motor that has a solid 500 streetable horsepower... a stroked 460 Ford would do it... or, if you are so inclined... a 454 Chevy... a good trans with a trans brake, and if you have to, a blue bottle with the laughing gas... and 10's, here we come!

Sam.

 

DeWayne,

Maybe that's it; something about the back-end is wrong. Maybe the leaf spring rear axle is the problem. I'm no expert, but I've heard that leaf springs 'wind up' under hard acceleration. Maybe they come un-wound at different moments and that steers the back axle off one way or the other.

 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/257364

I don't know much about MELs but I think you're right; the 462 had different heads and intakes with smaller valves. The intake was designed to clear the low hood of the Continental. I think the 383/430 heads and intake are the hot setup.

There's no replacement for displacement.

 

'Fenders,

Can't argue that one. It would be all opinion like the engine debate (which you notice I stayed well out of). I do think that the Effie, or most '50s-'80s trucks for that matter, are going to be squirrelier (sic) than a car, with the poor aero, high CG, & barn-like sides.

Sam,

Yep, pretty much my thoughts on the cage as well....the plates are not my preference in this for a number of reasons, thus my girdle idea. However, plates would be much easier to fab & make work and I may well go that route.. I suspect that the plates & the better cage with the back bars would officially put the chassis into Dewayne's "full drag chassis" category. It would, however, I feel, do the trick. I prefer four links as well, but the ladders & coils would also be fine, & be somewhat simpler. I've spent too much of my misspent youth with leaf springs to ever really like them but they would do. Love the tonneau idea. The 460 (520) is already in the parts-collecting stages. Transbrakes are for sissies. I know, I know....it would be much smarter...but I never said I was smart. Hey, I'm currently breathing insulation, mold, and ancient DNA all day. Thanks for confirming & adding to my ideas.

Paul,

Thanks for the website, I should have guessed it was on N54.

I don't remember anymore which one I dissected but I think it was a late '50s 383, I guess it would have to be a '58 or '59. Too many greasy engines gone by over the years. I would imagine through evolution the 430 heads were improved. If I recall the 462 was '66 & '67 only with the new body design, so your memory fits.

 

I know your talking apples and I'm talking oranges buy you guys got me wondering, how fast in the 1/4 mile would the average effie run. I'm thinking a mostly stock big block or a mildly warmed over small block. Say 300 real HP at the rear wheels. Setup for the street,street gear, tires, everything street. Not that I'd admit to any street racing but: my 53 with mostly stock 390 with 3.0 gear will outrun my sons new F150 with a 5.4 motor. I know thats not real fast but it sure tics him off..........
___________________
XFM
'53 F100 (pops toy)

 

I'd say high 14's to mid 15's... add a good gear and slicks... and you can knock a second off those times... more cam, a converter... better heads, bigger carb and another second comes off the time slips... it's a disease.

Sam.

 

XFM

Your sons F150 probably runs about a 17 sec quarter. A later-model Mustang (of similar weight to a SB Effie) gets into the 13s pretty easy with a little under 300RWHP. Based on that I agree with Sam's numbers. You won't be able to get out of the hole very well with 300 real RWHP, without a few mods. Draggers pay huge attention to the 60 foot time as it generally is a huge indicator on how fast your ET will be. (some cars with different style blowers excluded as they may "recover" with a blistering performance on the big endvof the track. Sam and Homespun would know more about that though).


I saw real weight numbers on a bigblock Effie the other day. As I recall it was about 2500# front, 900# rear. And he had already made some efforts to correct the ratio. That's a real bad number that would usually require a lot of dialing in to run a good time.

 

'FF, your right about not getting traction out of the hole, those 235's don't have a prayer again'st that old big block. And I forgot, that race that didn't happen, was from a rolling start..... Now you got me remembering my old GTO that ran high 13's at KCIR.... The back seat was great for..........oh never mind.
___________________
XFM
'53 F100

 

With a vehicle that spins the tires a lot... the ET will suffer, but the MPH will increase.

The 60ft times are VERY important... as well as the 1/8th mile ET and mph. Our drag car runs a 1.4 60 ft, and a 6.50 at 102mph 1/8th mile...

Sam.

 

I'm running a stroked BB Ford. Building a '56 F100 with a 632ci Stroked BB Ford alky injection. Leaving the line is quite the feeling! Keith