I'm having trouble lining-up my doors after doing the cab over. I was really careful to not take the door posts loose from the floor attachment when I redid the floor and although the wood mounts are ones that I made they are exactly the dimensions of the originals. Also, I reskinned both doors and made new "tanks" for the bottoms but the measurements seem OK now to what they were before. When I screwed them back the alignment was off 1/4" on one side and the better part of 1/2" on the other. Soooo, I started tightening the front mounts all the way down to the frame without the 1/4" rubber shims and that helped some but the door wedges have to do the rest. There is enough play in the hinges to allow that but that may change with new SS pins for the mirrors. What I want to know from you is if there is a cause and effect to shimming and removing mounts and shims to effect door alignment? I'd like to know this before I start chasing the alignment around. I can shim behind the hinges but it seems this is probably not the way to go if at all possible.
Last edited by Elder Rodder : 03-08-2005 at 11:59 AM.
Reason: forgot something
ER,
What's the measurement across your floor from outside to outside at the from of door? and rear of door? Did you cross measure the door opening corner to corner? Run some pictures with a cloth tape measure in place to show your measurements. I can check with my measurements to see if "we" are close. C U AL.
Last Sunday I jacked the cab after loostening the mount bolts everywhere except the last one in the back on both sides and watched as the door dovetail moved up. I used a block and bottle jack under the cab corners and the front mount was up about 1" when the left door reached alignment. The right side took about 1-1/4" to even it up and the left lost about 1/8" after the right side was there. Both of the doors, or course, lost a little when the jack was removed but can be shimmed and played-with to even things up. Does this seem to be anything like what you did, or not? I didn't quite get what you wanted me to do about measuring the cab. Across the floor or in the door opening? Also, What are your measurements in the front mounts to frame on both sides in front? I guess I should also ask what the distance is from cab to frame on both side in the back also.
ER
The reason that I wanted you to measure the doors was, after re-skinning them, were they square in like both the same exact size. Did they distort or move out of shape of what they had been or what they were suppose to be? If we both measure our doors from the same points and there were exactly the same then the doors would be square, consequently, they would be square to openings if we tried them. If they were the same but wouldn't fit the openings then we would assume (there goes that word again) the opening was not square and adjustments would have to be made. BUT, as you found out when you released the body from the frame, things began to change. I can give you a measurement for the front body mount at the firewall legs, 1 1/4". BUT, this measurement is only relative to my truck because of the way the mounts are set up. YOURS, may be plus or minus a 1/4 of an inch.
What I would suggest that you do is to first level your truck front to back, side to side. Then, take one of those laser levels and pass it over your cab and make horizontal "register" marks at each edge of the doors where the laser touches. Run a string line across from mark to mark, measure down to the sill plate and see if the sill plate is straight across. If it isn't, shim out the body mounts with bevelled body shims till the sill is straight. Use your frame mounting bolts to appy some tension to the body while using large washers so as to not distort the floor, and pull it down snug to the frame. The body should be equal-distant to the running boards, with the fenders coming off from them and the hood should cap off the fenders. The rear box rails should be level and in line with the belts line of the doors and cab. If it all works out like that, then you have perfect alignment of the body.
Both you and I know, it ain't goinna happen! When Henry built those doors back in 1940, they were only relative to the openings. A hit here, a hit there, a little stretch, a little bend, and it was close enough. Henry never put a diagonal brace in the door to keep them structurally square and stiff, an engineering error! Just the weight of the door caused them to sag and drag the sill and the dovetail wore. The hinges had no bushings and was binding because it was steel on steel. Two hinges were cheaper than three and the door never swung evenly. There is no adjustment on the hinge, to adjust the door, bend the door skin and inner frame so that it fits the opening. You could very well end up putting a come-a-long from one edge to the other to pull the door in. Just remember that these trucks are 65 years old and wrinkles add character!
Alittle40,
Thanks for the post, that should help a lot. Especially about the front cab mounts to the frame. Mine started-out right down to the 1/4" rubber so when the jacking took me up in the 1"-1 1/4" range I got thinking things were way out. I feel better about that now. I'll give your methods a shot and get back to you when I've got something to report. How did you learn all that about the alignments? I'm impressed, no one I talk to seems to know much about them.
Elder Rodder
ER,
I saw them first hand when they were unmolested on the dealer's lot and on the streets. Probably the only time in one's life it pays to be an OLD FART!!!
I have a son that was a chassis and suspension specialist at L/M and built the '03 Lincoln chassis and suspension. Funny how that suspension looks like the one I built for my '37 Plymouth!
My driver's side door also is a little inside of the cab side in front. I'm thinking of drilling-out the spot weld(s) on the threaded triangular piece that the 5/16-24 machine screws bolt into and elongating the holes on the door post and moving the door out to flush with the cab when closed and then tightening them. This seems about the only option since I think this door was jammed somewhere along the line while the driver was backing up with it open. However it got off alignment, it is about 3/32" inside the cab surface. Just enough to be noticable. Got any other thoughts on this aspect of door alignment?
Show me a picture of that door! OR, you can slice and dice, use a cut-off wheel to slice verticle down the door and along the bottom. Wedge the cut with body shims to widen the door with the outer surface. When door and cowl is smooth, tack the cut every 3", pull wedges, check alignment, if OK, mig the cut up and grind down to finish. If cut has gotten wider than 1/8", add a filler of like metal wire, and buzz it in with mig and grind down to finish. I use a piece of wire that is used on the bottom strand of chain link fences for this purpose. Its strong yet bendable, pick it up at Home Depot, Lowe's.
The reason that I wouldn't pop the welds on the hinge is because of the re-weld factor, heat will pull the hinge alignment all over the place and as you know Henry wasn't too good hinge bushings. (They cost an extra nickel.)
OK, I did it, I drilled-out the upper hinge spot weld, and after removing the triangular threaded receiver inside the cab, ground ellipses toward the outside in the body holes in the top and bottom hinge recesses for the left door. I then re-screwed the doors and after tapping the hinges out a little the left door came flush with the cowl. Now why didn't Henry allow for that? As a cruise vehicle the doors should stay put with just tightening and not rewelding everything. I don't intend slamming them again after all of this. The door to opening is still being messed with. Al Little, I want to thank you for giving your spacing above the frame at the firewall. That helped a lot! The other indicator is my running boards since they're bolted to the frame. They're running about parallel with the cab and that's a good thing. Both doors are running close to the drip rail on the upper front curve. I need to shim under the 2nd mounting bolt on the frame around the cab corner so that I gain 1/4" or so more to align the dovetail and cab molding on the right door (passenger) and the left door is about there right now. I'm about 1.5" at the firewall, that frame must be sagged in the middle. I know, now, that when one side goes up, the other usually goes down or somewhere. This shimming is a real P.I.T.A. I'm trying not to shim behind the hinges if at all possible (may not be possible after 65 years). I may try using the porta-power diagonally inside the cab just a little to see if that brings the upper curve back away from the drip rail. Jeez! such witchcraft involved in this stuff....
Slice and dice ER, slice and dice. Henry was like most doctors today, just practising! It sounds like you have things well in hand and the truck seems to be coming along great. Portapowers are great, but in a pinch a floor jack and a length of 4x4 work well too. Come-a-longs are nice, nylon webs with ratchets re-arc fenders real well. Talk to you soon, AL.
I got two good body men, my good buddy and two porta-powers with some assorted fitted wood pieces and started jacking the cab. (omygod) Using forward diagonals on both sides of the cab at once the old baby snapped and cracked some but gradually moved back into shape, and the doors came into alignment with the spacing around them to the opening, just right. I was amazed that the cab could have shifted that way with no apparent accident in its' history. I did have it on its' nose while working on the floor but I didn't think that would do anything to it, just sitting. Of course, the driver's door had been jammed, probably while backing up and looking back with it open. That could have jacked it a little I suppose. Anyway, for whatever reason, the doors come right into line with the dovetails in the notches and the door spacing correct. During this process, the cab had been unshimmed and brought down to standard wood bunk level so that the cab is resting on the upper wood landings and the bottom curve of the wood is sitting on the frame with just webbing between them. The firewall mounts are right on the 1/4" rubber and the frame. All is well in the rod shop once again, Arthur is back from the Crusades and Camelot is on good times again. Thanks Alittle40 and others for your help and suggestions in dealing with this problem.
Hey ER,
We knew you could do it. You just had to find the right guys and tools to help you. Glad to hear that it worked out for you. I've been playing for three weeks now on my hood and I just found out that I have to move the fenders ahead 3/4 of an inch to make it fit right. Talk with you soon, we'll get together soon. AL
Geez, how are you going to do that? The brackets come off the cowling and the holes for them, in the fenders, are at the end of the top run of the fenders. 3/4" is a lot to get.
The hood is going to stay put (attached to the cowl is correct) but the fenders can be kicked out a little at the cowl, plus a little stretch to the overal length, and a shim to the grille, should get me my 3/4 of an inch. Failling that, a shot of porta-power and a bit of dolly work should work it out too.
Check out that new link I put up on winding springs, that will keep you from getting 'blue nails' from trying to wind your own in the vice.
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The other indicator is my running boards since they're bolted to the frame. They're running about parallel with the cab and that's a good thing. Both doors are running close to the drip rail on the upper front curve. I need to shim under the 2nd mounting bolt on the frame around the cab corner so that I gain 1/4" or so more to align the dovetail and cab molding on the right door (passenger) and the left door is about there right now. I'm about 1.5" at the firewall, that frame must be sagged in the middle. I know, now, that when one side goes up, the other usually goes down or somewhere. This shimming is a real P.I.T.A. I'm trying not to shim behind the hinges if at all possible (may not be possible after 65 years). I may try using the porta-power diagonally inside the cab just a little to see if that brings the upper curve back away from the drip rail. Jeez! such witchcraft involved in this stuff....
