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Old 02-26-2005, 05:33 PM
woodya651 woodya651 is offline
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Talking 2.3 upper drivetrain knock... No Spark??

Just did the clutch and had issues related to that.... Longer post. I now have a knock that sound like #1 or #2 cylinder that was not there before. I have the 8 spark plug beast, Oil and filter were changed. Along with new coolant.(leak found while changing clutch) The engine did not have a knock before, I looked to see if there was anything in the way, but this definetly a mechanical knock... And finally the question. Would the engine run and knock with one bank of the ingnition be off? It runs w/o loping but a knock is definetly there? Almost like one spark plug is out maybe the #1 clylinder?

A couple of things to note. When replacing the clutch, I rotated the engine both ways by the flywheel when torqing the bolts, I don't know if this caused any damage? The timing seems to be intact, Everything runs okay except this nasty knock, Almost like a lifter knock.

I haven't had a chance to diagnose this yet, As I am doing the weekend/shadetree/apartment dewler/ girlfrinds house thing.

I maybe too soon to ask as I have not check for spark, and I almost had a fight at the local harbor frieght waiting in line to get a spark checker. But realized that a screwdriver and a couple of beers is cheaper and less agravating. Whew... thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 02-28-2005, 02:13 PM
Bart99GT Bart99GT is offline
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If you rotated the engine counter-clockwise (looking from the front), there is a good chance that the timing belt jumped a tooth or two. Take the inspection plug out of the timing cover and check to see if the timing marks are still lined up. I'm going to venture to say that they probably aren't.
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Old 02-28-2005, 04:33 PM
woodya651 woodya651 is offline
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Lightbulb

Thanks Bart99GT, I thought the same thing, but it only knocks, at idle, rev, and under load. I would presume that if it were timing it would lope or miss, It only sounds like it is in the #1 cylinder..

However, When I get another chance to look at it I will pull the plug or (plugs) in the cover for the timing belt. Is it easily seen. Or will this require that I remove anything else? (i.e. hoses pulleys etc.?)

I am thinking of the "lack of spark issue" becasue of another engine I "repaired"...

I changed the spark plugs on an old 22r toyota and everthing went well. I have changed plugs on many things. SO after buttoning everthing up and changing the wires. I had a terrible valve racket. I immediatly ruled out the plugs and went on a "hunt" for this knock and slight miss, a week later and many hairs gone, I discovered that when you replace plugs be sure that even the slightest miss when installing new plugs, check them closley!!!! in fact re-gap them to be doubly sure, The #4 cylinder plug's gap was completly closed...... UGH What a PITA that was.

Thanks again for the thought. I will make sure to check the points on the gears. Are the supposed to be straight up and down at #1 TDC?
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Old 02-28-2005, 07:47 PM
kotzy kotzy is offline
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Before you take a lot of stuff apart run the engine at idle for some time. I think what your hearing are collapsed slack adjusters. you turn the engine by hand and the adjusters don't have oil pressure to fill them the cam presses them down in the bores.
Takes a while to fill them, I've seen this many times.
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Old 03-01-2005, 03:55 AM
woodya651 woodya651 is offline
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another great idea. Thanks kotzy! I have rebuilt an old 302 and from what I remember it did have the hydraulic lifters in it. It knocked a little and after some time they presurized and "tigthened" up. I presume you are refering to the same action with these, as I have not seen them yet. are they also refered to as cam "followers". If it is the cause then could it be just dumb luck that it did this to either #1 or #2?

I asked this same spark related question to a local mechanic and this was his thought. But he said cam "follower" has probably bit the dust. I plan to remove the valve cover and replace the gasket, (I really wanted to wait a couple of weeks to do this because I also want to get at all eight plugs vs having to fight my way around the intake.) I am still curious why this would have just started and be so noticeable. The engine should have made some sort of noise before that would have clued me to something failing..

Another note to mention is that the oil was drained on a saturday and refilled on the following saturday. My first thought was that the oil pump had lost it's prime. But If that wouldn't the engine knock all over the head? And the oil pressure guage was reading.

I have not ran the engine long, Only enough to get the coolant pressurized and to check for leaks. When I first mentioned that it knocks at idle/rev and under load it was a VERY short trip, just down the block and babied back.

Also, If this turns out to be timing related, does this particular engine have valve clearance?

All are great ideas and I will try all.

kotzy, do you mean to rotate the engine clockwise and turned slowly? enough to engauge them a couple of times?
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Old 03-01-2005, 06:50 AM
kotzy kotzy is offline
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I guess what happens is the pressure on the slack /lifters causes them to leak down.
Running the engine with pressure refills them however it may take abit of time,as you have to expell the air which enters them. It may take afew seconds or up to a half an hour. I'll just add this, on one make of v6 I know it wasn't unusual to have to run it
them for 20 minutes or more. Seems idle works better that high speed and I can't tell
you why. Turning by hand would not help as you don't have oil pressure
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Old 03-01-2005, 10:57 AM
woodya651 woodya651 is offline
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Make sense, I misunderstood. Thanks. I will give feedback on what I find after this weekend.
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Old 03-01-2005, 10:09 PM
Bart99GT Bart99GT is offline
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Checking the timing belt on these engines is about as easy as it can be. On the timing belt cover, there is a rubber grommet near the top of the cover. Pull it out to expose part of the cam gear and the timing pointer. Rotate the engine in a clockwise direction using a 22mm socket on a breaker bar until you can see a triangular tooth on the cam gear. Slowly line up this timing mark with the middle of the pointer on the inner cover. Then take a look at the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley. If the engine is in time, then it should indicate TDC. If they don't line up, you need to remove the timing belt cover completely, which usually involves removing the serpentine belt and anything else that might be in the way. The trick to timing these engines is to get as much slack as possible on the driver's side of the belt when putting it back on and it helps to have a helper holding the crank still when putting tension back on the belt to keep things lined up. Oh, have fun trying to take tension off the belt. Unless you have the special tensioner tool it is a PITA to find something to pry on to release the tensioner.
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Old 03-06-2005, 03:09 PM
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Smile

Alright, I looked at the timing, It appears to be off a tooth, I put the camshaft mark dead center of the pointer and looked at the crankshaft mark and on the scale from BTDC down it is @ 2 or 3 degrees off, maybye 8?? I figure this is my issue, It does run okay but when it gets to temp and idles back it does lope a little and the knock is still there. Timing belt will be changed, I guess when anyone changes a clutch they need to remember that the flywheel needs only to be rotated in just "ONE" direction. The truck ran perfect before this, The slave cylinder was very simple to bleed, i do not know why everyone has issues with this.

I am also seeing the leak from the coolant line underneath the manifold. If I remove the line from the tee going to the mainfold will it cause any problems? It appears to just run to the manifold but that's it, Does it go throught the head afterthat or will i just be able to bypass it and rmove this hassel? I changed from the "ford" clamps to a regular clamp . Does this make any difference? Thnaks for the help....
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Old 03-06-2005, 03:59 PM
woodya651 woodya651 is offline
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Also, Would using 10w 40 cause any issues? I looked and the engine called for 5w30.
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:39 PM
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Samsonitesamsonite Samsonitesamsonite is offline
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no it shouldn't.... my engine made a similar sou nd and it turned out to be that i had actually broke a lifter...... take a peek under your valve cover.
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Old 03-25-2005, 02:39 PM
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