Your comment was that more HEMI crate motors are being sold than 460 crate motors.
My reasoning for that is that you can't just run to the local bone yard, find a HEMI and rebuild it. Consequently you're limited to buying a crate motor if you want a HEMI........agreed?
The reason the 460 crate motor sells less(according to you) is if you want a 460 based motor you have a choice of finding a core OR buying the crate motor. Result? Less crate motor sales because more rebuildable cores are available.
Yes, they're casting new ones..............because old ones aren't readily available...........just the opposite of the 460.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Ford big block. With the new SCJ heads or Kaase heads you can build a monster of a motor. There are thousands of 454 and 460 cores available for builds, and if you look you can find plenty of 440's out there (they are getting rare).
A Hemi is a legend, just like the Boss 429, 428 SOHC, Yenko 427's, they are more of a novelty. It's just the "WOW" factor. I put an old 331 Hemi in a '73 Charger for my wife, and you should see the looks I get.
Wow factor is as good a reason as any.
An impossible statistic to find would not be the crate motor sales (Tim has stated HEMI sales are higher) but how many total 460 based motors are being used in hot rod stuff.........both crate and rebuilds.
Just a WAG ,but if Hemi crates outsell 460 crates by 2000 to 1000 (hypothetical) BUT 460 rebuilds account for 1000 units.........pretty even then?
Someone else may have already mentioned this but I am not about to read the 300 replies. This is FTE as in Ford "TRUCK" Enthusiasts so in the case of TRUCK motors, the 460 wins hands down. This is an unbiased opinion, don't let the name fool you.
As a truck motor the 460 is the true stump-pulling, load-pulling, durable workhorse of the three. The 440 truck motor made good torque and ok hp. I never owned one but the 1978 Power Wagon my buddie had would not make a hill pulling a 6K LB. load without shifting his 4spd into second and sometimes granny low. The 454 was overrated from the factory like most every gm motor of that time. I dnyoed a 1991 SS454 truck rated at 230rwhp and ended up with about 197rwhp. Torque numbers were about 75FT. LB. lower than advertised as well. Every stock 460 equipped truck I have driven be it a 78 F350 2WD Dually Flatbed, 87 F250 4x4, 96 F350 4x4, all impressed me towing. But like the others said, the 460 was never used as a hi-po car motor so the numbers are lower than the other two. Doesn't mean that it's not capable of huge numbers because the drag racing, monster truck, and off-road crowd know what the 460 can do. It will also do it over and over unlike the 454 with it's so-so bottom end and nearly unrebuildable block.
Someone else may have already mentioned this but I am not about to read the 300 replies. This is FTE as in Ford "TRUCK" Enthusiasts so in the case of TRUCK motors, the 460 wins hands down. This is an unbiased opinion, don't let the name fool you.
As a truck motor the 460 is the true stump-pulling, load-pulling, durable workhorse of the three. The 440 truck motor made good torque and ok hp. I never owned one but the 1978 Power Wagon my buddie had would not make a hill pulling a 6K LB. load without shifting his 4spd into second and sometimes granny low. The 454 was overrated from the factory like most every gm motor of that time. I dnyoed a 1991 SS454 truck rated at 230rwhp and ended up with about 197rwhp. Torque numbers were about 75FT. LB. lower than advertised as well. Every stock 460 equipped truck I have driven be it a 78 F350 2WD Dually Flatbed, 87 F250 4x4, 96 F350 4x4, all impressed me towing. But like the others said, the 460 was never used as a hi-po car motor so the numbers are lower than the other two. Doesn't mean that it's not capable of huge numbers because the drag racing, monster truck, and off-road crowd know what the 460 can do. It will also do it over and over unlike the 454 with it's so-so bottom end and nearly unrebuildable block.
Well, first off the TBI 454's were rated at 230 net h.p., not r.w.h.p., so 197 h.p. at the rear wheels is actually pretty good. The same year 460's were rated at 235 h.p. with port injection, and I would suspect you would see very similar numbers on the dyno. As for the 454's so-so bottom end, that's a new one on me. Naturally the 4 bolt blocks were stronger, but I never saw much bottom end trouble on any of them, 2 or 4 bolt. 'Nearly unrebuildable block' is a ridiculous statement, in my 30 years in the business I have worked on many many 454's and you can take any production block out .060 without any problems, same as a 460.
...the 454 with it's so-so bottom end and nearly unrebuildable block
demonstrates a severe disconnect with the facts. I have been working on a more lengthy contribution to this thread -- don't know if I'll get it done or not -- but such an assessment was a too egregious to allow to pass without crying "foul!"
demonstrates a severe disconnect with the facts. I have been working on a more lengthy contribution to this thread -- don't know if I'll get it done or not -- but such an assessment was a too egregious to allow to pass without crying "foul!"
I just telling you what we come across. Most of the 454 blocks we get are too warped or cracked for repair. GM wouldn't have such a huge aftermaket motor selection if their factory blocks would tolerate continuous rebuilds like the Fords we build do. Cry foul all you want the numbers in our shops proves my point. I don't want to continue this much further for I hate pointless internet arguing but here are just the facts about what we find. We hardly ever get GM big-blocks but when we do, most of them need extensive machining. We get alot of Ford and Mopar engines around here and we almost never get guys coming back with damaged ford motors without hardcore abuse. Believe it or not, most of the time it's a dodge 318 that holds up the worst. Our mud guys around town use and abuse 335 and 385 series Fords the most and they put everyone else to shame. Thats just our area and I'm sure it differs elsewhere so don't start preaching to me because I don't want to hear it. I was just answering the thread topic.
Landon, we were just telling you what we have come across. When you view the contribution of others with the attitude of "...don't start preaching to me because I don't want to hear it," you are bound to see "just the facts about what we find" as the only truth that exists and see the expression of the experiences of others as "pointless internet arguing."
That is why, when you say, "I was just answering the thread topic," I think you were actually only replying to the thread, but unfortunately, you view your post as the only answer. I'm afraid that your attempt to instill "truth" to those here who know better has fallen somewhat flat.
I just telling you what we come across. Most of the 454 blocks we get are too warped or cracked for repair. GM wouldn't have such a huge aftermaket motor selection if their factory blocks would tolerate continuous rebuilds like the Fords we build do. Cry foul all you want the numbers in our shops proves my point. I don't want to continue this much further for I hate pointless internet arguing but here are just the facts about what we find. We hardly ever get GM big-blocks but when we do, most of them need extensive machining. We get alot of Ford and Mopar engines around here and we almost never get guys coming back with damaged ford motors without hardcore abuse. Believe it or not, most of the time it's a dodge 318 that holds up the worst. Our mud guys around town use and abuse 335 and 385 series Fords the most and they put everyone else to shame. Thats just our area and I'm sure it differs elsewhere so don't start preaching to me because I don't want to hear it. I was just answering the thread topic.
You would have to analyze exactly what those engines were subject to during service to give any meaning to your claim that BBC's are 'unrebuildable'. For instance, there is a higher percentage of BBC's in medium and heavy commercial trucks than 385 Fords, and that is far harder service than you would see even from your 'mud guys'. Warpage is usually caused by repeated thermal cycling, something common in commercial service. You also commented on 335's. I think that is funny, as those engines were known through out the industry as having rather thin block and head castings, not to mention core shift which seemed to be a pretty common factor. I ran into many 351M and 400 blocks that due to core shift couldn't even be taken out to .040. That was NEVER an issue with either a BBC or a 385. Both the BBC and the 385 are among the stoutest gas V-8's ever produced, to say otherwise brings your knowledge into question. Quit while you are ahead.
You would have to analyze exactly what those engines were subject to during service to give any meaning to your claim that BBC's are 'unrebuildable'. For instance, there is a higher percentage of BBC's in medium and heavy commercial trucks than 385 Fords, and that is far harder service than you would see even from your 'mud guys'. Warpage is usually caused by repeated thermal cycling, something common in commercial service. You also commented on 335's. I think that is funny, as those engines were known through out the industry as having rather thin block and head castings, not to mention core shift which seemed to be a pretty common factor. I ran into many 351M and 400 blocks that due to core shift couldn't even be taken out to .040. That was NEVER an issue with either a BBC or a 385. Both the BBC and the 385 are among the stoutest gas V-8's ever produced, to say otherwise brings your knowledge into question. Quit while you are ahead.
WOW. You guys sure have nothing better to do than argue about stuff that doesn't even matter. Those are my experiences and mine alone so don't question me unless you can 100% prove me wrong. I will always stand by Ford engines over any other based on what I have experienced so don't say stuff like "to say otherwise brings your knowledge into question". I was giving my opinion like everyone else. At least I have a reason for my opinion based on experience and I'm not like others just saying they like something becuase of rating numbers or other aftermarket hype. Leave me alone and find something else to complain about would you?
Bro-you got picked apart by two guys that obviously know a lot more about the subject at hand than you do. I'm not dogging you for liking Ford motors but the fact of the matter is that just because you like them doesn't mean you are smarter than Joe or wb. Just cut your losses and call it a day, almost everybody on here gets worked by somebody more knowledgeable than them in a given category.
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2008 Dodge 3500, CTD, Auto, 4X4, 4 door dually
You guys sure have nothing better to do than argue about stuff that doesn't even matter.
I see that you are back... What do you have to do?
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Those are my experiences and mine alone so don't question me unless you can 100% prove me wrong.
You are trying to put words in other people's mouths. The point is not your experiences, the point is that you think your experiences are the only thing that matters and that nobody else's do. As any reasonable person can note, such attitudes are bunkum.
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...so don't say stuff like "to say otherwise brings your knowledge into question".
Er, excuse me, but you were the one who brought the attitude of:
"Someone else may have already mentioned this but I am not about to read the 300 replies."
"... the 460 was never used as a hi-po car motor so the numbers are lower than the other two."
'... unlike the 454 with it's so-so bottom end and nearly unrebuildable block."
"I don't want to continue this much further for I hate pointless internet arguing..."
"Thats just our area and I'm sure it differs elsewhere so don't start preaching to me because I don't want to hear it."
to the forum here.
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I was giving my opinion like everyone else.
So tell me, oh Font of Wisdom, how does this set you apart from everyone else here and make your opinion the only thing that matters?
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At least I have a reason for my opinion based on experience and I'm not like others just saying they like something becuase of rating numbers or other aftermarket hype.
So, you are assuming that Joe and I have no real world experience? That is quite telling, regarding the attitude you are bringing here. Tell me, Landon, just how is it that you know about everyone's lives here? I have never been to your shop, and since this seems to be where you gain such wide-ranging knowledge about how everyone is wrong and you are right, I'm curious how you know all the details of what I've done in my life. (I hope you don't feel picked on by my wondering this -- I certainly would set aside everything else that I'm doing to find out how you come by this pearl of wisdom.)
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Leave me alone and find something else to complain about would you?
You are the one who came here and piped up with this rant -- if you want to be left alone, I'm sure you can figure out how that would be accomplished. Until then, as long as you continue this line of attack, I suppose we must assume you're trying to reprise the role of Monty Python's Black Knight.
I see that you are back... What do you have to do?
You are trying to put words in other people's mouths. The point is not your experiences, the point is that you think your experiences are the only thing that matters and that nobody else's do. As any reasonable person can note, such attitudes are bunkum.
Er, excuse me, but you were the one who brought the attitude of:
"Someone else may have already mentioned this but I am not about to read the 300 replies."
"... the 460 was never used as a hi-po car motor so the numbers are lower than the other two."
'... unlike the 454 with it's so-so bottom end and nearly unrebuildable block."
"I don't want to continue this much further for I hate pointless internet arguing..."
"Thats just our area and I'm sure it differs elsewhere so don't start preaching to me because I don't want to hear it."
to the forum here.
So tell me, oh Font of Wisdom, how does this set you apart from everyone else here and make your opinion the only thing that matters?
So, you are assuming that Joe and I have no real world experience? That is quite telling, regarding the attitude you are bringing here. Tell me, Landon, just how is it that you know about everyone's lives here? I have never been to your shop, and since this seems to be where you gain such wide-ranging knowledge about how everyone is wrong and you are right, I'm curious how you know all the details of what I've done in my life. (I hope you don't feel picked on by my wondering this -- I certainly would set aside everything else that I'm doing to find out how you come by this pearl of wisdom.)
You are the one who came here and piped up with this rant -- if you want to be left alone, I'm sure you can figure out how that would be accomplished. Until then, as long as you continue this line of attack, I suppose we must assume you're trying to reprise the role of Monty Python's Black Knight.
I have not read a single reply that involves your pointless rants. This goes for all you guys. The fact that I am still responding to this thread is because I want to hear others info and personal experiences with the said motors just like I wrote. I have stuck to the topic and I'm not here to tell someone they are wrong or right based on their opinion. I couldn't care less wether or not anyone agress with me I am just excersizing my right to respond like everyone else. All I did was respond to the post about what motor I like better and if you don't like it keep it to yourself. I have not tried to lead people in any wrong direction with any numbers that were too far off like many others do on just about every post I read. If I say I have not come across a lot of good rebuildable BBC's then that is what I have experienced and you can't tell me I'm wrong because your not me. I am not on here trying to stir up trouble but it seems like theres always a few egocentric guys with nothing better to do than try to belittle someone. Enjoy your superiority from behind your screen. I don't value internet dominance you can have it. Mine comes in the real world so enjoy.
P.S. I have NOT, I repeat, have NOT told a single person they are wrong. The one guy actually said, "I'm curious how you know all the details of what I've done in my life". When the heck did I ever claim to know a single thing about anyone???? I don't care about you nay sayers so get over yourselves. This is retarded. Unless you are posting experiences or numbers I'm sure this guy would like his thread back. What is the matter with you people?...are you all insane? You guys are the type that would argue anything aren't you? Thats rhetorical. Please don't answer.
Decades ago, my tripower 65 GTO was stomped into the ground by a 71 429CJ Mustang so badly I felt like I was in Aunt Maude's Rash Nambler. So much for The younger crowd may buy this kind of benchracing here, but it floats like a lead balloon to folks who were "there" in "the day."
Like you said, you got stomped by a 429. I said 460. Same family, not quite same motor. I love the 460 but it was not used in so-called musclecars. It's not benchracing it's reality. The stock 460 has nowhere near the same power as a 71 429CJ unless were talking a 68-71 lincoln but how many lincoln "musclecars" are there?
Like you said, you got stomped by a 429. I said 460. Same family, not quite same motor. I love the 460 but it was not used in so-called musclecars. It's not benchracing it's reality. The stock 460 has nowhere near the same power as a 71 429CJ unless were talking a 68-71 lincoln but how many lincoln "musclecars" are there?
This statement doesn't illustrate much familiarity with the similarities and differences between the 460 and the 429, nor with the difference between the CJ/SCJ engines and the rest of the Lima family.
This part of your statement is true:
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But like the others said, the 460 was never used as a hi-po car motor...
But your conclusion
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so the numbers are lower than the other two.
doesn't follow. There were hipo and lopo versions of the 454 and 440, as well, and the ability to make power with a lopo truck motor from factory parts and expertise existed at Ford, just as much as it did with GM and Mopar -- your conclusion simply doesn't stand up to facts.
However, you said:
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I have not read a single reply that involves your pointless rants. This goes for all you guys.
so I'm not really sure why, after stating this, you changed your ways and read my post anyway -- did it have something to do with something that you saw at your shop?
You say:
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I'm not here to tell someone they are wrong or right based on their opinion.
and it's clear that this is simply more malarkey from you. What about:
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Cry foul all you want the numbers in our shops proves my point.
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I don't want to continue this much further for I hate pointless internet arguing but here are just the facts about what we find.
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Those are my experiences and mine alone so don't question me unless you can 100% prove me wrong. I will always stand by Ford engines over any other based on what I have experienced so don't say stuff like "to say otherwise brings your knowledge into question".
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At least I have a reason for my opinion based on experience and I'm not like others just saying they like something becuase of rating numbers or other aftermarket hype.
This is a very odd way not to tell someone that they're wrong -- is this someone else's invention, or is it your own?
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The fact that I am still responding to this thread is because I want to hear others info and personal experiences with the said motors just like I wrote.
It seems as if you are so busy responding that you can't hear others. If you'll be quiet, you might just learn something. But as you take such pride in what you don't read and how you don't listen, there's not much chance of that happening. One thing I have learned in life, is that by definition, there is no teaching a person who knows it all already. Knowing it all is a burden that's too heavy for me to bear, but some seem to have signed up for such duty.
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f I say I have not come across a lot of good rebuildable BBC's then that is what I have experienced and you can't tell me I'm wrong because your not me.
Well, that's just the point here, and since you are not listening, you can't get it, can you? Nobody's telling you that what you've seen is all wet, just that our experiences are different. Evidently, you think that your opinion is the only one that matters and that you are the only one who knows facts -- and that anyone who says something that contradicts the conclusion you've drawn from what you've seen cannot have any experience, and is simply talking from "book knowledge."
Sometime in life, I'd suggest you cross the street -- you may find out that all the addresses are even numbered on that side.
finally, again related to the posts you didn't read:
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The one guy actually said, "I'm curious how you know all the details of what I've done in my life". When the heck did I ever claim to know a single thing about anyone????
You say that you don't read any other posts (which, as we have seen, is not the case), but you're apparently not ever reading your own, much less recalling your own words. I am beginning to question your "experience," since you apparently can't remember making this statement:
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At least I have a reason for my opinion based on experience and I'm not like others just saying they like something becuase of rating numbers or other aftermarket hype.
which implies that anyone who says anything different that you must have no experience, and that those who disagree with you must get their knowledge about these matters second-hand.
and that's just a bunch of bunk. When you get to the age that you're allowed to vote, maybe by then you'll have figured it out.
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