Sad, but it should not surprise me. My neighbor asked me if i would mind taking a look at their 1995 Dodge Caravan (short) with the 3.0 V6 Mitsubushi. To make a long story short, they have been noticing a silver dollar size oil spot, after the van sits overnight, or for any length of time. 76,XXX miles. It was approaching dusk, so I went and retrieved my Magnite flashlight out of my Aerostar XLT van. I could see several oil spots, some dry, some relitively fresh. When I shined the flashlight under the Caravan, it was easy to see the oil drip was coming directly below the oil pan drain bolt. Since the clearence was too low, I offered to pull the Caravan up on a set of car ramps. I did that, crawled underneath. The 17MM pan bolt was loose. I wiped the area clean with a rag, and with the light shining, I could notice a small oil leak, slowly seeping, through the bolt and gasket. Asked the neighbor to bring me a open end 17mm wrench. Turned it first, by hand, and my fears were confirmed. The pan bolt turned hand tight, but then continued to turn, turn turn turn, never snugging up, tight. Stripped! Told this to the neighbor, as she got down to look at what I was saying, and my demostration of the problem. Seems about three weeks ago, she had the oil and filter changed at a very famous, household word, fast lube place. Someone, not paying attention, torqued it down way too hard. The oil pan gasket looked new (drain bolt gasket, I'm referring too). So she is going to take it back in to the famous lube place, (with receipt) and see what they say. I added about 1/2 to the Caravan (oil still looked golden) to bring it up to full, and told her to check the oil level, at least every other day. I also told her, this needs to be looked at and fixed ASAP. With the drain bolt only at hand tight, I feel it's possible for the bolt to vibrate loose, possibly letting more than a siver dollar loss of oil leak out of the engine. How many times have we've heard of this happening? Any thoughts? This is why I do all of my oil changes myself. 138K on a old '87 3.0 V6 Aerostar, never any problems. I use one of those drain bolts that have a small magnet tip on the end, to trap any micro metal particals in the oil. Motorcraft FL400s oil filters, with clean, crisp, fresh, pristine, pure Mobil 1 0W30 Ed

 

Ed,

I guess there is never a guarantee that work will be done right no matter if it is the bottom of the barrel quick lube joint or some shop higher on the pecking order. Myself or my family have had so many issues with the quick lube joints that I would rather the oil clump up into tar ***** then go into a quick lube joint. Try stripped drain bolts, not removing the old filter gasket (gasket on gasket causes the oil to leak like a sieve as soon as the oil gets hot) etc. And how does the quick lube joints train those folks when many of them in my area do not speak english or spanish.

I have had some issues with shops futher up the pecking order but it just seems like the odds of a botched job at the quick lube joints is so high as to be unaccepable (at least in my opinion).

 

I had a friend who had this exact thing happen at a Honda dealer. I like the dealer, but still, whoever changed the oil screwed up. They would not fix it stating that at 220k the pan threads just wear out. I guess the previous change at a quckie lube place told here that the threads were getting bad. So, they were getting bad, but they still let the car out without saying anything. It would lead a 12" circle in 6 hours the same day. Unacceptable.

I also had a similar thing happen when I bought my F150 from a Ford dealer. They said they changed the brake pads and changed the oil, but I could see through the wheels that they didn't change the pads. The oil was black, had a dirty wix filter (not motorcraft) and a Ron's Auto sticker on the windshield. They insisted they did the work and even showed me the work order and signature of the tech. I told them that I just wanted them to acknowledge it. I mean, the brakes worked fine and still had lining on and the oil was not much over the change sticker. I thought I could get a better price. I told them I didn't want anything done to the truck, but they brought it in the shop and said the tech that did the work was in trouble and I watched them change the oil, which I had just told them not to do. When the tech tightend the plug with a 15" breaker bar real hard I asked him if he always tightens plugs that tight. He said yes. He didn't seem friendly or the kind of person I want working on my truck. I should have made him remove and put it back on. The first change I did the plug was stripped bad, but luckily the pan threads were ok.

I don't think if it matters if it is a quick lube place or a big reputable dealership. Stuff happens. That is why I like doing the work myself. If I had to take a vehicle in I would go to a local repair place that I get tires and alignments at. I know those people real well and trust them. I like to actually know and talk to the people doing the work. That way, I have a first name to talk to that actually might remember my truck rather than a tech number or a manager who knows nothing of what really happened.

 

LOL I wouldnt take it back to the quicky lube, they will just stuff an oversized plug in, and send it out. But I agree anyone can screw up an oil change, you dont need to be ASE to do that.

 

it would be nice that before you could even touch someone elses car for a job, that you had to be ASE certified. but then where would all the kids who cant get jobs at McDonalds work?

 

Have the neighbor lobby hard to have the lube stop replace the pan. If we are on the same wavelength, my mom's old 91 3.1L Camaro drain plug was stripped...they put in a plastic replacement and NO ONE else would lay a hand on it to do an oil change after that, for liability purposes!

 

I had a service station change the oil in wife's Aerostar many years ago. Next day I noticed the same kind of oil spot Ed mentioned. Plug was only hand tight. Fortunately it was not stripped. Could have been worse as the next day we left on an 800 mile trip. I hate to think if I had not spotted the drip.

 

During the winter I have the oil changed in my 92 F150 at wally world,they seemed to take too long one time and I did not think too much about it but when it came time to change the oil again it was warm so I did it myself and I noticed it had a different drain plug in it. It looks like they stripped it and put a oversized plug in it but it came off and tightend all right but I wont take it back as I always told them to grease the U joints but last winter they never did and I had to replace all of them again and they were new last fall so they will never change the oil in my vehicles again.

 

I can almost guarantee that the quick lube place is not going to take any responsibility for the stripped drain plug. They will say that's how it came into the shop and essentially tell you to prove that they did it.

This situation brings to light another benefit of installing a Fumoto oil drain valve instead of using a regular drain plug. They make it so easy to access the old oil. I would even recommend one for those motorists who don't do their own oil changes. With something like that installed there is no chance of anyone stripping the drain plug.

 

I think there are oversize drain plugs available for a couple ot bucks. I'd get one and start changing my own oil.

Drain valves are nice (I might get one for myself), but you might need one with a larger thread, and you need to tap the hole.

 

Update on the Dodge Caravan: Talked to the neighbor late this afternoon, who was retrieving her mail. She waved to me, as I was walking my dog, so I walked over to see what was up. Yesterday, she took the van back to the fast lube place (first word, rhymes with "spiffy") and the manager looked at the van, but only offered her a coupon for a free oil and filter change. They would do nothing, about fixing the pan threads. To make a long story short, she is going to take her paperwork, and file a complaint with the BAR "Bureau of Automotive Repair" that is a state agency here in California, that investigates auto body / collison, repair disputes between consumers and repair facilities, and see what they say. On Saturday, she is taking the van to a relative who is a machinist, welder, who told her to bring the Caravan to him to look at. (she called him) in which I told her that was a excellent course of action. Get this, her husband, who normally does the minor maintenance chores, has been busy at work, putting in 12-14 hour days (he is a truck driver) and was going to change the oil, prior to Christmas. However, you know how it is, the guy gets home, enjoys some R&R, and doesn't get around to doing it. She decides, to surprise him, and while out Holiday shopping one afternoon, decides to have the oil changed at the "nifty" lube place, to give her husband a break. Then this happens. She even offered to pay me for looking at their van the other night, which I promptly refused. Very nice person. I just think these fast lube places, are probably in too much of a hurry. My theory (opinion only, I do not know this for a fact) is they have a time limit for each car or pick-up. If there is a long line, they probably rush even faster, thinking they will lose customers waiting in line, if the line isn't moving. I am sure there are some employees honestly trying to do a good job. However, there is a small percentage of workers, who could care less. Looking at oil pans and undercarriages all look the same from under the vehicle, working in the pit. How many times have we heard of when they add 5 quarts of oil, to a vehicle that calls for 4 1/2 quarts? Lastly, the "bulk" oil they use, they might say it's a brand name. But how do we know it's the correct viscosity, and not some "recycled", "reformulated" oil? Then, I understand that some people truly need the services of those establishments. The elderly, young mothers with kids, people with physical disabilities etc. It's just sad, that a certain percentage of the work done, is not done correctly. Cmlind experience with his oil change (and more shocking, the brake pads not being replaced on his Ford F-150!) J Y Jeff, and others is sad. But we all take our rides in at some point, hoping the person doing the work, actually cares what he is doing. I know mistakes can happen when working on any vehicle. But all we ask is a shop or mechanic "come correct", tell us what went wrong, and the correct course of action they will do to fix the problem. Sadly, that is lacking in today's "fast paced" world. Rockledge made a good suggestion for the Fumoto drain plug. Simply, sliding the lever to drain the oil, would eliminate the need to loosen and tighten the drain bolt during the scheduled oil changes. I think I'll think about that part for my Aerostar. I like using the current drain bolt with a magnetic tip, for obvious reasons. Thanks for your replies everyone, and any other "experiences" from the "in and out" fast lube places, please tell us. Ed
PS Those, "tune up while-u-wait" places, I cringe every time I drive past them! Imagine the cross threaded bargain plugs, the plugs in too loose or torqued down with a breaker bar, deep into the head! The plug wire broken off of the boot, or in my case once. When doing my own tune-up, noticing two rear plugs ignored, because they are hard to access. Four plugs of one brand, and two rear plugs of another,,,...Incorrectly gapped "bargain plugs", plug wire seperators, broken and ignored. Incorrectly, routed plug wires, laying close or on exhaust manifolds, etc. I've seen and experienced it, since working on cars and pick-ups as a teenager in the 70s! There are many who can work faster than me. It might take me 5 hours to change a water pump, that the majority of you could easily do in two hours. But I know the work I do is done correctly, even if it takes me longer, or another day to do it. Ed

 

right on Ed
That's well said bro

 

I have been driving for a tad over 40 years and I could count the oil changes that have been done on my cars by people other than myself on one hand. And those were done by a dealer with me specifying the tech. That tech is my brother in law who I've known and trusted over thirty years.

This gets back to the old "if you want it done right, do it yourself" thing. There have been very few things done by others on my cars over the years. In my younger days it was because I couldn't afford to hire it done. Now it's because I can't find anyone who I trust to do it right. If I could, I would pay to have it done.

As most of us know frequent oil changes are the single most important thing you can do for long engine life. It's not difficult anyone can do it. I have even taught my daughter to do it and insist that she do it herself to see that it is done right when she goes away to college.

I heard on the radio the other day a commercial that implied that no one was qualified to do an oil change on their Toyota except Factory Trained Technicians. I guess I've been really lucky, because I'm not a factory trained Toyota technician and I've changed the oil myself in my wifes 4Runner for 185,000 miles and it still runs great. I guess this means I'm a genius since I learned to do it without Toyota factory training.

If you are relying on an oil change parlor, get a drain pan, a suitable drain plug wrench and a filter wrench if necessary. After you drain the oil in the drain pan pour it into the empty oil cans, seal it up and take them by AutoZone or Wal Mart or somewhere. There are lots of places where you can take it to be recycled.

For people that grew up not doing such a dirty job, just get on your old clothes and go do it. Keep some rags or paper towels handy, or get some hand cleaner at the auto store.

Change that oil, and see that it's done right. It will pay off in the long run.

My $0.02,
Doc

 

I have to agree with most of what was said about getting oil changes at dealers or quick lubes. Just remember, these guys are in it for a fast buck. Technicians get no 'training' and probably are paid no more than the kids at McDonalds. Smaller shops are more dependable as they rely on good word to stay in business. Bigger outlets can usually just flub you off. Be that as it may, I am an inter-provincially licensed mechanic in Canada with American ASE credits. We too make mistakes. I for one like to 'fess up when I screw up. Customers like to know you are human too. That being said, worn out drain plugs should never happen. They are lubed by oil coming out and going back in. They wear out due to overtightening. No less, no more. The guy using the 15" J bar, should eat it.