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  #1  
Old 01-17-2005, 03:18 AM
genspot genspot is offline
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96 Cummins 12Valve into an '88 F350

Hi All,

First post to this forum... I used to hang out over in the "460" forum but, alas that engine has cratered and so....

I'm now in the "parts gathering" stages of swapping the cummins into my '88 one ton. As stated above, my trucks current engine is a 460 with the five speed ZF tranny.

Is there anyone out there that has done this swap who can let me know what worked and didn't work for them? I know that FordCummins has an adapter plate for the ZF tranny for instance, but it's $700 bills which strikes me as a tad excessive.

Any and all help is most welcome!

thanks,

R.
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2005, 11:53 AM
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if you found a deal on the NV/CTD combo that might be cheaper than keeping your ZF and those are worth a pretty penny and you could recoup some bills like that. this would really work best if your truck was 2wd.
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2005, 07:48 PM
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Genspot try these folks they do this conversion all the time.
www.cummins-sp.com
They are in Fort Worth, Texas
wats line is 1-800-933-0031
Hope this helps

Pat
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2005, 10:05 PM
genspot genspot is offline
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Thanks folks... I'll look into both suggestions and let the forum know how it turns out.

R.

Ps... My truck is a two wheel drive.

r.
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2005, 10:06 AM
DannyP DannyP is offline
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I dropped a 97 Cummins into my 93 F350 this past fall. It was originally equipped with a 460. I shelled out the big bucks for the Ford Cummins ZF adapter. Took about 7 weeks from the time I placed the order to receive it.
Got my motor mounts from Reliable Diesel in Arizona. Fabbed accessory brackets myself. I have about 170 hours of labor in the project. It's not cheap or quick, but I do enjoy the results. I was getting 9 to 10 mpg with the 460 now I am getting close to 18.
DannyP
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2005, 12:43 PM
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Cummins in a Ford

Howdy people.

I'm going to do a similar thing except I want to place a 1997 (or earlier...mechanically injected) Cummins 6BT + a NV 6-speed in my 1955 FORD F-600

It's currently got the old 272 Y-block V-8 gas engine and evidently a Borg Warner T98 4-speed. (I think this truck originally had a 6 and someone many years ago put the V-8 in it!)

It's got a 6.80:1 rear end!.....3500 RPM at 60 mph!!(with 20" wheels and a 38" rolling diameter.....2 wheel dr ) I'll still need to find much higher ratio gears for the rear end. I want it to turn about 1700 rpm or so at 60mph in 6th (OD) gear. I'm figuring about a 2.50 rear end ratio.

The 6 speed is fairly new so finding one in a wrecking yard will probably not be that easy.....my second choice is of course is the 5 speed. (everybody wants the 6 speed so they are swapping out their 5 speeds ....the 5 speed should be very plentiful and it's got the same final ratio in 5th anyway...)

Anyone have other thoughts on this swap?

Regards,

Rick
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  #7  
Old 02-15-2005, 06:33 PM
DannyP DannyP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT32BSX115
Howdy people.

I'm going to do a similar thing except I want to place a 1997 (or earlier...mechanically injected) Cummins 6BT + a NV 6-speed in my 1955 FORD F-600

...(with 20" wheels and a 38" rolling diameter.....2 wheel dr ) I'll still need to find much higher ratio gears for the rear end. I want it to turn about 1700 rpm or so at 60mph in 6th (OD) gear. I'm figuring about a 2.50 rear end ratio.

Regards,

Rick
I think you need to recalculate your gearing needs. I am too tired to figure it out at the moment, but just off the top of my head with a 38" tall tire I would think something in the ball park of 3.50 to 4.10 would be more like it. A 2.50 ratio would give you warp drive capabilities but it would be a toad on takeoff.
DannyP
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  #8  
Old 03-02-2005, 10:03 PM
PhilipG PhilipG is offline
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This thing won't let me give an address... but search for novak adapters and explore their site. They've got an excellent drivetrain calculator there.
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2005, 02:05 AM
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Rpm/mph

Hi Danny,

Yes you're right!

What I meant to say was around 3.50 or so. I have a simple spreadsheet rpm/tire dia/ratio calculator that I found here somewhere. It's an Excel file but of course I use Open Office (free). It works great if you plug in the right numbers!

I'd like to see around 50-60 mph at 1700 or so in direct drive. According to the calculator I'd get 61 at 1500 in 5th (0.75) with the NV4500.

The main problem will be finding the correct gearset. I was told that there was around 4 different gearsets for this Timken rearend. I don't know what is available but I'll try to find some choices when I get back to the rearend.

Currently I'm working on just getting it drivable. So far I have replaced all the brakes, master cyl, wheel cyls, Hydrovac, rear wheel bearings etc. I'm working on the kingpins, and front springs/bushings. I had a real problem finding wheels that are safe to use. It had "Widowmakers" on it when I got it!

The fun never stops!


Regards,

Rick




Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyP
I think you need to recalculate your gearing needs. I am too tired to figure it out at the moment, but just off the top of my head with a 38" tall tire I would think something in the ball park of 3.50 to 4.10 would be more like it. A 2.50 ratio would give you warp drive capabilities but it would be a toad on takeoff.
DannyP
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2005, 12:44 AM
genspot genspot is offline
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Update to original thread topic

Hello all,

I thought I'd update the forum on progress on the swap that started this thread...."460 out, Cummins in"
I ordered the swap kit, including the adapter plate from FordCummins. Everything arrived as advertised and within the time they quoted me.

I bought a '99 Ford Diesel intercooler via ebay for $175, that also arrived without drama. I'm in Canada, so I did have some concerns with things being delayed at the border... but that didn't happen.

The engine is now in the truck, SouthBend clutch is installed and the ZF tranny and shortened driveshaft are in place.

300 hp/3000 RMP kit is in place, KDP has been addressed. There will be a 4 inch BD engine brake going in as the new exhaust system goes together.

Pyrometer and other gauges are being mated to the engine and I expect it to be running sometime in the next week or so.

Flow tests on the in-tank fuel pumps will happen this week... I'm hoping I won't have to strip the pumps out of the tanks.

3.31 gear set has been located and will replace the 4.10's once the truck is back on the road.

Issues to date:

I am concerned with the clearance between the turbo the Ford A/C box... it's very tight ~1/4 inch or so.

The A/C compressor looks to be a very tight fit against the hood....the hood hasn't gone on yet, so we'll have to see.

It seems that the firewall has a crack in it around the clutch master cylinder mount...I've been told this is fairly common and there is a kit available from Ford to correct this.

cheers,

R.
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:03 PM
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Hey, Genspot,

Sounds great! Thanks for the update. Just this evening, I hauled my donor 3500 Dodge home to the shop to start stripping; doing the same conversion as you into my '87 f350.

I know it's a little late to say so now, but I'll throw this out there in case it does someone some good. There is an exhaust manifold which is used on some Cummins applications in delivery trucks, and vans and such that discharges straight down between the #4 and 5 exhaust port. This allows you to tuck the turbo down beside the engine (assuming you don't have an auto trans cooler in the way there) and gives you a lot of room beside the Ford climate control.

This is what I'm going to do with mine just as soon as I can find one of these manifolds on ebay or something.

Fordcummins won't let on to this, but they've done this on a couple of their conversions. The blue '77 crewcab on their site has this manifold, and you can only tell by looking at the pics under the hood after it's done, but you can see the plumbing they did for the charge air lines.

Genspot, Did you have to do any major work to your front clip to get a powerstroke cooler to fit? I thought those were a wider unit, like in the 94+ Dodges.

Regards,
Philip
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2005, 03:04 AM
genspot genspot is offline
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Yeah, I know about the other manifold.... to lazy to track one down, and I'd heard the stocker was tight but do-able..

I may go for a header from Piers if money permits later on though...

There were lots of little cuts and bends needed to make everything fit, and it's not all done yet! Best to lay the the rad, the clip and the intercooler on the floor and then cut the clip to fit. My intercooler intakes had to be cut off and remounted at a slight angle to allow enough clearance for the hose between the rad and the intercooler intake.

If you want to see some pics... send me an email and I'll send you progress shots. I do have some detail shots of the mods to the front clip which will be helpful to you.

Make sure you check the firewall around the clutch master cylinder while the engine is out of the frame. My engine may have to come out again to fix the point where the firewall has started to come apart. I've got shots of this as well.

Onward!

Rob.
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2005, 10:55 PM
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Hi HT32BSX115, I installed a 453 Detroit and a Allison in a 47 1.5 ton ford truck it is a very tight fit, also changed the rear axel to a IH load star 1500 it had a five lug bolt patern. I would think about going with a two speed axle the more gears the more options you have when pulling a heavy load. I am not sure but I think your truck has a six lug patern if so ford made them for years . newer trucks should also have bigger brakes that you will need if you go faster than the truck was designed. good luck on your swap and KEEP ON TRUCKING!
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  #14  
Old 03-10-2005, 10:02 PM
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Dda 4-53/at-540?

Howdy,

Well the wheels I found were not safe to use I guess....

I ended up buying rebuilt wheels from Les Schwab for $200 per wheel. 6 wheels!

The 55 has 5 lug BUD wheels. so they're pretty rare. Les Schwab has a source for older wheels though.

I would love to use a 4-53T That's a very strong engine and coupled up with an AT-540 it would run pretty good but I'd have to find another rear end ratio. THat engine will only go up to about 3200 rpm I think.....And I would probably have trouble hearing myself think at that RPM!!!

A friend of mine put one in an IH 1 TON truck in the 70's and he put 700,000 miles on it!
wore everything out except the engine!!

THanks for the info,


Regards,

Rick




Quote:
Originally Posted by fat 47
Hi HT32BSX115, I installed a 453 Detroit and a Allison in a 47 1.5 ton ford truck it is a very tight fit, also changed the rear axel to a IH load star 1500 it had a five lug bolt patern. I would think about going with a two speed axle the more gears the more options you have when pulling a heavy load. I am not sure but I think your truck has a six lug patern if so ford made them for years . newer trucks should also have bigger brakes that you will need if you go faster than the truck was designed. good luck on your swap and KEEP ON TRUCKING!
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  #15  
Old 03-11-2005, 08:58 AM
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If you're worried about not enough rpm, the 94-98 Cummins 12 valve can be equipped to do that. A set of governer springs will raise the governed rpm to which ever set you get. There's 3000, 3400, 4000, and up to racer only areas of 5500 and 6500. In my opinion, every 12valve should have at least a 3k gov spring set, and those are around $150. Not all that hard to do, about equal to replacing a set of valve springs(which also needs to be done on the kits above 3400).
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Old 03-11-2005, 08:58 AM
 
 
 
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