My 97 E250 HD with 91K on it, bought new with 4.2L V6, is loosing coolant. With the cold weather coolant was very visible in exhaust until engine warmed up until I put stop leak in radiator. I did this because I want to avoid vapor lock and ruining engine altogether, but obviously I still need to address this issue as soon as possible.
First time this happened in 2000, dealer fixed. Now, with no warrentee & old dealer out of business, new dealer suggestes buying a new engine. Says '97 4.2L fixes he has done still fail, generally within 3 months. He wants $1K to do head gasket, didn't mention intake manifold gaskets, and doesn't want to see me wasting my money with repairs. A new engine (quoted $4.5K) will likely total $5K with tax and who knows what else.

I see posts by others with the 4.2L V6 successfully replacing the intake manifold gaskets to stop this leak.

Is there a consensus regarding which gaskets need replacing? or is that only determined by doing various tests on the engine?

Opinions? replace gaskets, buy a new engine? Use a dealer or local mech?

My van is otherwise in reasonably good shape and has plenty of options on it. Another mechanic who looked at it and shared the dealer's opinion, wants to buy it for $2500.



Thanks for your input,
Jim, The Werkingman

 

www.leakingfords.com

i belive there were two gaskets that failed, the front something cover gasket and lower intake manifold gasket, i dont think the headgasket was bad. and for 5k, i'd shop around on the classified section of this site, buy a used 4.6 or 5.4 for 2.5-3k ish and spend another 700-1k getting it professionally installed and save yourself some $$

 

I just got done installing a 4.2 ford remanufactured engine in a 97 E-250 purchased from dealer for $2,000 with a $1,000 core charge 36 month 3 year warranty. I really dont see why you couldnt change the lower intake gaskets and fix the problem.Have you seen any signs of leaking at the heads? Have you checked the front cover?

 

Are you refering to the front timing chain cover? To tell the truth, I haven't visually looked at the heads or front timing chain cover to see if there is evidence of leak, as I figured leak would not be visible. Will check that out.
RH, do I understand correctly that your total cost to replace engine was $3,000? Were you having similar issues?

 

The usual leaking gasket suspects are the lower intake manifold and the front engine cover (aka timing chain cover). Having a bad head gasket leaking coolant into the cylinders and then into the exhaust is almost always just that. No other damage. Just replace the one head gasket you're having trouble with. A number of ways you might narrow down which one it is.

If the coolant got into the oil, the story is considerably different. Coolant is kryptonite to bearings, rod, main, and camshaft. If you pull the engine, none of these are expensive or that hard to do. You can't really leave the engine in the truck because the pan won't come off a 4.2L in the truck. In this case, you'd have to repair the leak and replace the bearings. Someone recently saved an engine that recently got coolant into the oil by repeated flushes. He had the immediate catch and the flushes on his side, not the normal story.

If it were me, I'd have the oil checked for coolant contamination. If none, I'd identify the bad head gasket (compression, leakage, pressurize radiator look through spark plug holes...) and replace that one head gasket. If there were coolant in the oil, I'd pull the engine (or the cab, see flatratetech.com) replace the front cover and intake gaskets with the new design and also put main, rod, and cam bearings in it. If I couldn't do the work myself, I'd price replace or rebuild options but probably sell the van for $2500.

 

I'm an idiot, I assumed the exhaust vapor was a head gasket, not the intake gasket leaking coolant into the air stream. Same logic applies but the gasket is cheaper. If no coolant in oil, replace the gasket. This time there is no doubt about which one, the front cover wouldn't leak into a cylinder and there is only one lower intake. If coolant in oil, and you've run it this way for a week or more, I'd be in the replace rod, main, and cam bearings or replace the engine.

Sorry I assumed head gasket. That's just what he offered to replace for $1K. Do you know what was replaced the first time?

 

Yeah, I only paid $2000 for the engine i got a $1,000 core charge back from dealer.I thought it was a good deal myself. I had to use my lower and upper intake manifold and all accesories.

 

At 37K engine coolant leak was due to timing cover gasket. They replaced the gasket, and reported a broken bolt, which was drilled out and replaced. I remember seeing the same plume of white exhaust at one point, but don't recall if it was related to the timing chain cover. In any case, is there a specific test for water contamination in crankcase? or is a visual examination of oil adequate, ie, brown emulsion on dip stick? I checked the oil via dipstick and oil appears clean, no water.

If plugs indicate coolant in combustion, then likely rings and cylinder walls are damaged, and I should see some contamination in oil, right? If that is case I would be better off with short block rebuild at the right price or a new engine.

Cantrama, if the coolant is leaking on the intake side, won't it enter the combustion process too, affecting the internal parts, like cylinder walls, and plugs? I'm just trying to understand this. It is unclear to me if the timing cover were leaking, where the coolant would go and what it would contaminate.

Thanks for all the help. Never would I get any of this from a dealer or mechanic. Thanks again.
Jim

 

Hey,
I'm the guy that saved a GM engine after about two radiators of water/coolant mixed with the oil.

On a V motor, an intake gasket leak can leak coolant into the V area and if the motor is not overhead cam this area is where the cam is and below it is a huge path to the oil pan. You can also leak it into the combustion chamber, but unless you hydrolock the motor and bend a rod I don't think you have to worry (might damage a valve). Lots of guys use water injection with glycol mixed in high boost turbo setup to eliminate detonation. Just rememeber that there isn't supposed to be much oil up there to begin with or else you start to burn it

Replacing the motor or even the bearing seems like a pain (since you have to pull the motor just to inspect the bearing). I would pull the oil filler cap and neck off (I think this goes right to the valve cover...mine is a 2004 and only got 2 oil changes on her). and wipe my finger around in there. If it comes out with a gray foamy mix or looks like that then you have a coolant in the oil problem. Fix the leak, flush the motor a few times, and run it until a rod starts knocking. That's what I would do if mine had the same problem at 36,500 miles, unless you need a extremly reliable truck (like a fire truck

I mean if you are going to pull the motor just for bearing inspection, I think I would hold off until there are audible signs of bearing damage...but they do let go some times without making a sound. In the end, it's what you feel comfortable with and how much you want to spend.

 

A leaking intake manifold gasket can leak coolant through the valley into the oil AND/OR it can leak into the intake port of the head and through the combustion chamber. A leaking front cover can leak coolant into the oil. A leaking head gasket can leak coolant into the combustion chamber (and could but I've never seen it, leak it into the oil).

Coolant in the combustion chamber may foul the plug (whitish or brownish deposits), poison the O2 sensors, create huge clouds of steam out the exhaust, and even wash oil off the cylinder walls if huge amounts. If enough leaks into a cylinder when the engine is not running, it can fill the cylinder and then hydrolock while cranking, bending rods and breaking things.

Coolant in the oil may turn it white or chocolate, may make it thicker, and will form acids and sludge that attack soft metals like bearing material and block oil passages. Even small amounts can be detected with oil analysis. I don't know of another positive way to detect small amounts.

I think it would take a lot of coolant through the combustion chamber to cause cylinder, piston, or ring damage. Fedds pointed this out. It isn't what I suggested earlier, but his last two paragraphs sound like excellent advice. Flush with new oil and if you don't have bearing damage, why fight it. If you do, you're only out a few oil changes or flushes. You'll know if you get rod knock. If you're not sure, you don't. Lots of people have knocking sounds they think are rod knock. If you really have it, it'll be loud enough you'll be sure.

 

As I sit here tonight thinking about this,-I am likely going to do oil flushes, test oil, and change gaskets, I recall the dealer suggesting that if I did do the head gasket, the heads would be sent out to be machined and checked for cracks. If I were to have head gasket done, is this a normal part of the process or do I ask that he just swap out the old head gasket for a new one?
Cantrma, thanks for the continued input. I asked a mechanic today if he could test the oil, but he didn't know of any tests other than a visual test to check for coolant contamination. I am wondering what test for oil/water contamination and who would do it? Are these tests fairly common?

 

As I sit here tonight thinking about this,-I am likely going to do oil flushes, test oil, and change gaskets, I recall the dealer suggesting that if I did do the head gasket, the heads would be sent out to be machined and checked for cracks. If I were to have head gasket done, is this a normal part of the process or do I ask that he just swap out the old head gasket for a new one?
Cantrma, thanks for the continued input. I asked a mechanic today if he could test the oil, but he didn't know of any tests other than a visual test to check for coolant contamination. I am wondering what test for oil/water contamination and who would do it? Are these tests fairly common?
My last Van's main bearings began failing at around 160K, so I do know what that sounds like. So far everything is running smoothly, and quietly too. Thank you.

 

Just reread your original post. You're loosing coolant and you saw white smoke until the engine warmed up. This only happened in cold weather. In cold weather, some engines do have white smoke until warm. It's not clear that this is related to the coolant loss. If the white smoke was from coolant, it obviously leaked while the engine was off and was smoking out when the engine first fired up. It must not be much of a leak or you would see white smoke in cold weather or warm and engine cold or hot.

You haven't seen any smoke since stop leak. Stop Leak is pretty premanent. If the leak was in the intake manifold, it leaked into the cylinder and not into the oil, and stop leak fixed it, you may be done. Keep an eye on the coolant level, keep checking the oil for color and thickness, keep an eye on the exhaust for white smoke, and drive it. When it's cold out, watch other people's cars when the condensation smokes out of it on startup. Then you'll know if yours is excessive.

If you are intent on fixing it, you have a delimma. I'm not sure the white smoke you saw was coolant. It happened in cold weather and a cold engine when they all have white smoke from condensation. You haven't seen signs of coolant in the oil. Have the oil checked for coolant by an oil analysis lab and have it done at each oil change. Your dealer or quick change can probably hook you up with one. If not, google oil analysis.

My story is changing, but I'm less and less sure you have a problem. Your original coolant loss could be something more conventional like a leaky radiator, overflow, hoses, heater core, etc.

 

Thanks again for addition comments, Cantrma. Definitly was excessive white smoke on warmup driving. I was adding coolant at the same time, about a quart a week. Coolant level seems to have stopped. I am watching that. I just had oil changed, kept a sample to test, color was pretty dark, I may have let that oil change go too long. Had oil change place run extra oil through to flush out old oil, and do a coolant change too, and added stop leak again. Another local mechanic suggested just using stop leak as a permantant repair, citing a similar problem and solution GM used on a caddy engine recall. I just felt that finding and replacing the leaking gasket might still be a better solution.
Looking back in my repair records, the last time this happened, Ford replaced the timing chain cover gasket, and said that I had a broken cover bolt, also fixed, and that stopped the problem. that was at about 30K, when truck was three years old.

 

I'm glad your oil was still dark. That's a good sign. I'm also glad you were sure the white smoke was excessive. That means it was going out the cylinder, hopefully to the exclusion of the oil. If it's stopped, why not go with it.

I've seen stop leak do great things. My son met me in Parachute CO two winters ago in a '77 Volvo we rebuilt. It developed a severe (quart in 15 miles) coolant leak we couldn't immediately find. It was about 5 degrees on a Saturday evening and he was driving back toward Knoxville that night. Waiting would have been a several day delay, not to mention working on the car outdoors in the cold. We caught the little NAPA just before it closed, bought two small cans of Barz Leak (I think I remember the brand). Put one in the car and he ended up putting the other in in Albuqueque on the way back. This fall, almost 2 years later, we did some work on the car, turned out it was the thermostat gasket and it was still dry. No other ill effects either. Amazing.