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Old 12-22-2004, 05:47 PM
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Chapter Leader to veritable King?

I have a gripe, I dont have many, and a lot of times when I disagree with an idea, I realize how it betters FTE and the thought that went into the idea, and I keep my mouth, er uh, fingers quiet.....but this one is eating at me.

I keep reading about Chapter LEADERS moderating their own chapters, which seemd fine at first, but now it appears a few of them are getting a Bit big for their britches so to speak, and thank god Im personal friends with our chapter leader and it wont be an issue in our forum, but wouldnt apply to him anyway, because hes not like that.

Just concerned about things getting out of control and chapter leaders which I thought were supposed to be organizers, cheerleaders, recruiters, and general go-getters turning into chapter Kings making statements like.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by fellro86
I have a single thread in which I allow members to post what they have or are looking for, and yes, it is limited to local members, no dealers or such. It has been working well, as we have been swapping back and forth quite nicely, and many of the things really wouldn't get much attention on the classifieds, and are area specific.
Ive been seeing a lot of statements like this that rub me a little wrong for some reason....."I have" and "I allow" being the kickers

Im not trying to start any arguments, or change the way things are being done, just making sure we wont have chapter leaders storming around forums with homemade capes on imposing their will upon others, especially since they were voted in and didnt pass the same general screening process (which I hear is lengthy) that all mods must go through.

And FWIW Im even less enthused about a special forum for just chapter leaders.....especially if its private, that only makes the pedestal taller.......

just a thought......
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Old 12-22-2004, 05:59 PM
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Some good points,
This thread has to be moved to the General chapter discussion forum Kevin.

We'll address this topic there.
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Old 12-22-2004, 07:26 PM
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Kevin, you mean you don't like my home made cape? Is it the colors or the frills? I decided to trade in my tall pedestal for a taller truck. It's good to be the king.

I don't know what examples you've seen of this other than the one you listed but it could be that some of it is taken out of context also. What fellro "allows" could be something the chapter decided on and he enforces with mod powers if he's got them. The plan of action sounds exactly like what our chapter wanted to do. It could just be the way it came across in that statement.

The only mod power I'd like to have for the chapter is to create stickys for events and news. Other than that the Supers can handle the rest. I've seen people join just to try and sell their junk in our chapter and I just report it and the post is gone within a few hours.
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Old 12-22-2004, 07:42 PM
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I don't know if I entirely agree with you or not Kevin, and here is why:

1) As a chapter leader I see many (not too many) posts from people trying to sell stuff that I could delete before a Moderator could do it.

2) As a Leader I would like to be able to make stickies as well (without having to bug the mods, they got enough to do).

That's just my thoughts.

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Old 12-22-2004, 07:58 PM
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Hi Kevin,

you do bring up some good points.....and no you should not keep you mouth closed, because how else would someone know if what they are doing is right or wrong...

I'll answer a few of your concerns, this how I try to do things.

On the for sale items , in the Oh/Ky chpt , i have a read first concerning this please read in it and also read between the lines if you will.

I don't want one time posters coming in and posting there for sale items and then leave the forum looking like a yard sale. Active Ohio & FTE members can post things to help one another out with it...Flyby nights can do that in the classifieds...

Having one thread with all for sale items in it is a good idea, two reasons.
1 Makes it eaiser for a member to search for something instead of going back a few pages.
2. It keeps the forum from getting cluttered up and makes it eaiser to weed out old for sale items. IMO

Now I can't speak for the other chapters, but members in "our" group run the chapter....I just want to see it grow...

Now as far as to have a chapter leader forum , It is a good idea for the leaders to have place for us to speak our minds freely without getting bashed or made to feel dumb for expressing ourselves. In any buisness setting or military has a place where leaders/mangers have this.....there maybe management issue's that need to be addressed in private...And trust me admin will be watching it closely.

As to mod powers {which will be very limited}it will make getting things done much easier ,more quickly. read firsts, removing or editing a bad post or fixing one.

I know this may not address your concerns , but i do hope it helps..

I have a feeling that Ken and FTE staff want to take this site to whole new level that will surpass any forum out on the web and the the chapters are going to play a role in that.

Please remember these our my thoughts on your concerns. And I would hope that someone like yourself would point out to me if I was out of line..or acting in a manner that was inappropriate.

Ray
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:20 PM
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Kevin , i want to ask you a question without you taking it the wrong way,okay?

Just how active Are you in your chapter?
what I mean is do talk with your leader? have you voiced your concerns to him and how you feel about what is going on in your chapter?

what i'm getting at, is do you play a active role in the direction that chapter is going in? I'm just trying to get some insight as to why you feel this way..

On edit please don't take this as an attack on you..Okay? your insight could help us all as leaders.
....

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Old 12-22-2004, 08:30 PM
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It seems that his comments were made more about chapter leaders in general, not one specific chapter leader. I do think he made some very valid points that Ken and the other Administrators will consider, and everyone has the right to their own opinion. In the example he posted, the language does seem a bit extreme. It's amazing what a more subtle, nuanced approach to the English language can accomplish. The same information could very well have been reworded to not sound so harsh (such as using the wording "we" or "FTE" instead of "I"), which I believe is the core of his main point.
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Old 12-22-2004, 08:48 PM
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John , he did copy a post from his Chapter leader, and which is why I asked the questions about why he was feeling the way he did...

I would hope that a member in the chapter would give me a chance to address an issue if it offended them. Which might be the case. maybe..I don't know...

I never did say his points were not valid....as a matter a fact other CL's ,me included have responded to his concerns

I do like seeing these types of discussions.
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:08 PM
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We are all learning as we go. No one can expect any of the Chapter leaders to jump right in and be perfectly correct in every action they may take. Perhaps you are right though, it would be more appropriate to use "WE" words rather than "I" or "YOU". From the CL's I have spoken with, I don't think anyone is being arrogant or trying to act like a king. But now you have me curious enough to go look through some of my posts in the Drifters forum. ( After a short nap though. been a long day.)
Hey .. at least some of the chapters have participants...more than 3 or 4 anyway. I think those with good active chapters ought to feel pretty danged lucky and talk with each other in PM or email, if any of them have a concern...real or perceived. I'm sure most things can be worked out in a friendly, adult and positive manner.
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icicle
a few of them.....Ive been seeing a lot of statements like this that rub me a little wrong for some reason....."I have" and "I allow" being the kickers
This is what I was talking about. I was just trying to clarify what I believe he was saying, I'm not taking sides here. The problem as I see it, and have seen it before, is that the internet is very unpersonal. It is often hard to read what someone's tone is when they post. That's why using "we" words, for example, helps convey tone to the reader.
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Old 12-22-2004, 10:28 PM
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I made a mistake in my post,
Fellro66 is the Iowa CL and Ivanbric is CL of the Northwestchapter that Icicle is a member of.
I should have double checked who he quoted....It was not his chapter leader that he was voiceing his concerns about.......
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Old 12-22-2004, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f=2504by497
I should have double checked who he quoted....It was not his chapter leader that he was voiceing his concerns about.......
Of course not, he'd never say anything bad about his chapter leader. Because his chapter leader knows where he lives. I don't know that we're as "official" or as organized as other chapters but we have a pretty close group and keep everyone involved.
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:03 AM
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I've read plenty of posts by fellro86, and I don't really believe it's a power trip issue. It's more of a communication issue over the net. If you'll notice, fellro86 has already changed the message in question, so he is certainly a listener.
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Old 12-23-2004, 07:16 AM
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Oh boy, better get my cut and paste ready for quotes here, I like to paste quotes and reply to them one by one in a conversation like this so that what John states about lack of personal relation and context with the internet doesnt happen in my reply....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mil1ion
This thread has to be moved to the General chapter discussion forum Kevin.
Good idea, this particular forum slips my mind frequently, and its a knee jerk reaction to head for the feedback forum when my little brain starts cooking something like this up


Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanribic
I don't know what examples you've seen of this other than the one you listed but it could be that some of it is taken out of context also.
Im sure 99% of it is out of context, but that is just the point Im trying to make, as a moderator more so, but even a chapter leader, you have to be extremely careful not only what you say, but HOW you say it too, this applies in any circumstance, you and I are both in supervisory positions in real life, so Im sure you know what I mean, but its excaserbated (sp?) when your typing due to the lack of tone in your voice because your "voice" as it were is your fingers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanribic
The only mod power I'd like to have for the chapter is to create stickys for events and news. Other than that the Supers can handle the rest. I've seen people join just to try and sell their junk in our chapter and I just report it and the post is gone within a few hours.
I agree with this statement 110% In a forum as active as ours, anything not on the up and up will be reported in a flash, we all know how to use the exclamation triangle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beast12
1) As a chapter leader I see many (not too many) posts from people trying to sell stuff that I could delete before a Moderator could do it.

2) As a Leader I would like to be able to make stickies as well (without having to bug the mods, they got enough to do).
1.) I agree, but as a non chapter leader who spends a lot of time on FTE also, so do I, but is it worth all this extra code and programming time, and effort just to save a few seconds by having you be able to delete said post?

2.)Excellent point, yes you should be able to make stickies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beast12
That's just my thoughts.
Thats why were here Matt, to make this a better more fun place,keep expressing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f=2504by497
I don't want one time posters coming in and posting there for sale items and then leave the forum looking like a yard sale. Active Ohio & FTE members can post things to help one another out with it...Flyby nights can do that in the classifieds...
I agree with that 100% only thing I have to add is that your screen name is hard to remember when quoting you

Quote:
Originally Posted by f=2504by497
Now as far as to have a chapter leader forum , It is a good idea for the leaders to have place for us to speak our minds freely without getting bashed or made to feel dumb for expressing ourselves. In any buisness setting or military has a place where leaders/mangers have this.....there maybe management issue's that need to be addressed in private...And trust me admin will be watching it closely.
Youre not going to get bashed if its public, that kind of attitude is not tolerated on this website, you all know that, and I believe you will have much more creative input if everyone is involved, lets not have an "area 51" on FTE, mods and admins have one to discuss issues that cant be discussed in public, such as moderation issues, but I just dont see the need for one for chapter leaders, a forum for discussing and sharing ideas sure, but not a private one, creativity and ingenuity are not enccouraged by secrecy. If you have more thoughts on this that you feel may convince me or someone else otherwise, please DO share them, I can handle being disagreed with, and in fact think the forum were in right now discussing what were discussing proves that we already have a perfectly acceptable place to share ideas and chit chat with each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f=2504by497
Just how active Are you in your chapter?
what I mean is do talk with your leader? have you voiced your concerns to him and how you feel about what is going on in your chapter?

what i'm getting at, is do you play a active role in the direction that chapter is going in? I'm just trying to get some insight as to why you feel this way..

On edit please don't take this as an attack on you..Okay? your insight could help us all as leaders.
....
Very active, were the second largest posting chapter on FTE with very well known names on FTE like Ivanribic, Proeliator, Icicle, Beeboy, Oldhalftons, Spectramac ,ford_six and Cowboybillyninemile, I just rattled off eight names off the top of my head, all are people who hang out in the tech forums and contribute, all are names that are recognizable to anyone on this website who isnt a newbie, and most importantly, most of usl know each other, and enjoy hanging out together, I can post a tech question to my friends in the NW forum and get plenty of help (not as much as in the appropriate tech forum, but you get my point) point is, were a very close knit group for a bunch of dudes that met off the internet, and tech questions and get together posts end up being 120 response threads with 10 guys goofing around with each other, I am very proud of our chapter, and FTE and the direction both are going, I know you guys well enough that you need not fear me taking anything any of you say as an attack on me....but rather witty banter that helps head these chapters and this website in a positive direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsdiesel
It seems that his comments were made more about chapter leaders in general, not one specific chapter leader. I do think he made some very valid points that Ken and the other Administrators will consider, and everyone has the right to their own opinion. In the example he posted, the language does seem a bit extreme. It's amazing what a more subtle, nuanced approach to the English language can accomplish. The same information could very well have been reworded to not sound so harsh (such as using the wording "we" or "FTE" instead of "I"), which I believe is the core of hi
Bingo, excellent post john, your statement is exactly my point, I was not singling out a specific leader, only the comment, just be careful guys, everyones watching you and things on here dont always come out the same as they do with the spoken word, when the spotlights on someone, everythings easier to see, its one of the responsibilities of being a leader

Quote:
Originally Posted by f=2504by497
I do like seeing these types of discussions.
ME TOO!!!!! its why were all here, and another example why a chapter leader forum should just remain a general chapter discussion forum, trolls dont last around here, their troll bridge is quickly burned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordlover1951
From the CL's I have spoken with, I don't think anyone is being arrogant or trying to act like a king
me neither, Im just pointing out the potential eggshell BEFORE it gets broken, and on a side note, your not too far from us, have you ever considered dual chapter membership?

In summary guys, remember, whether its at work, as king of your own castle, or on FTE, with great power, comes great responsibility, use it wisely, and let your actions benefit FTE's future, if this chapter leader/moderator thing becomes a reality....and for those of you making sure you dont offend me, you haven't, now if you had 3 posts and one of em was "kevin your a moron, shut up" I probably would have told you to go fly your kite in someone else's wind, and to have a nice "discussion" with Dennis or Eric about how we treat each other on FTE, but I expect, and just received better from you guys, class acts all of you, and good input, keep it comin, for THAT is what makes this simple conglameration of dudes and dudettes who likes ford trucks more than it originally was....... Every single person who has contributed to this thread is a common name on FTE, and a contributing factor to why its such a cool website.

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Last edited by Icicle; 12-23-2004 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 12-23-2004, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsdiesel
It seems that his comments were made more about chapter leaders in general, not one specific chapter leader. I do think he made some very valid points that Ken and the other Administrators will consider, and everyone has the right to their own opinion. In the example he posted, the language does seem a bit extreme. It's amazing what a more subtle, nuanced approach to the English language can accomplish. The same information could very well have been reworded to not sound so harsh (such as using the wording "we" or "FTE" instead of "I"), which I believe is the core of his main point.
Ok, I found the post you meant... Thanks for your support, you are absolutely correct in how you take it. When I said "I" it was a reference to my being a representative of my chapter, nothing in the means of only my decision, I certainly do not behave that way, and do not have ANY moderation power other than going to a moderator to have them do something. Before you go blowing up over something, you may want to think about it for a moment, or investigate it a little better. As the chapter leader, it is up to me to find the best way to handle things like that, and I wanted to keep the clutter down from people looking for something or looking to sell something, and rather than cry to a moderator about this thread trying to sell something or whatever, I made a means for them to do it. I have yet to have one single thread removed, or had to be a "king". If you got ahold of any of my chapter, you would know that they like the way I have handled it all. I belong to other chapters as well, and I see the sticky's and warnings all the time about not selling , look in the classifieds, and all that. I didn't want to be that way, so I made an avenue for the members to be able to trade locally, and it has gone over well. Perhaps my particular wording wasn't the best, but the intent was only to share a method of handling a particular problem. Besides, if no one had control, the forums could become a free for all, and have no order. If I were out of line, the members would have let me know. In essence, I do have the power to do such, but I do not run a heavy hand, and you would be hard pressed to find anyone to tell you I do. Keep in mind that the internet is a different kind of communication, and voice tones tell more than words do about what someone is thinking, and there are no voice tones here. Many miscommunications can come from a simple misplaced word, and how many people here stop and think through how every angle may be perceived?
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