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Old 12-15-2004, 01:58 PM
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Question trans fluid in diesel fuel?

Here's a new one on me. I have been told that to clean the inside of a gas engine, you can put 1 qt of ATF into the crank case and run for 50 miles or so and walla. Change the oil and remove lots of crud. That being said, I just heard that adding a trans fluid to diesel fuel lubricates the valves, cleans and lubes injectors, and will give you an additional 1/2 mile per gallon mileage. This old timer said that trans fluid is very good for the inner fuel system of a diesel engine but the Ford Dealer wont reccomend it for warranty concerns and that Dodge used to recommend it to all customers for the Cummins.
Any truth to this??? It makes sense to me but in a world of high tech, smog screwed diesel engines, I am leary.
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Old 12-15-2004, 02:19 PM
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I think that you're probably better off using a fuel stabilizer additive like Stanadyne sp?, or PRI-D, or the like.

One comment made to me was that the ATF uses the same red dye used for off road diesel and as far as the fuel checkers can tell, you were using off road diesel. Odds of getting checked are rare but is it worth the trouble?
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Old 12-15-2004, 03:01 PM
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Does stanadyne lube the valves and injectors too? Prolly more expensive eh? I wonder if that would be a good enough answer if found with that red dye in the fuel? UYou know, yeah, I just added some trans fluid in for maintenance. How could they prove otherwise?
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Old 12-15-2004, 04:10 PM
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dont laugh one time at a truck stop fueling up this old timer was dumping atf into his tank and he said the same thing it lubricates and cleans the injectors he had an early 7.3 turbo and he had 400.000 miles on it so maybe it does work??
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Old 12-15-2004, 04:45 PM
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I have read and heard of many using ATF...
I know if you hands are real greasy and dirty...wash them with ATF...real clean they come!
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Old 12-15-2004, 05:28 PM
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ATF has lot's of cleaners in it. Sludge in an auto tranny will stop it from working real fast. So Yes you can run some in your fuel. I don't think that would be wise! but you can. there are lots of products out there that will do the same thing with directions as to how much per gallon. ATF in your OIL???????? If you have that much sludge and you brake it loose real fast. 50 miles. I dont think you will have much on an engine left. Think of all those small oil passages plugged with thick crud. The one engine I had that was full of crud was a 300 ci I6 installed in my 89 Bronco. I drained the oil and filled it with 5qts diesel. ran the eng until the temp guage started to rise. then drained. re-pete'd 4 times. Long cool down in between. nice clean eng, worked fine, oil pressure returned to normal.
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Old 12-15-2004, 07:32 PM
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I have used ATF in my older diesels with know problems, but it was only about a quart in a tank full. I never noticed it turning the fuel very red though, when changing filters.

I have used Marvel Mystery oil that I bought at Walmart, says it works great in diesels. I also called the company and they said it was tested in a late model cummins with no problems. I use it in my gas engines to now and then. I dought it would hurt anything and just add some lubrication.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:04 PM
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We've been adding ATF to our light duty diesels since the mid 80's without problems. I know how much everyone loves GM here, but we have had the service department recommend priming the fuel filter with ATF when we change them. We have had trucks with over 500,000 miles running ATF to clean the injection system. I have not tried the ATF trick on my 04' 6.0 yet, but do not know how the egr would handle it if it were not disconnected. The newest truck in the fleet to run ATF is my dad's personal 02' duramax. And yes I grew up driving diesel trucks before I ever had a license.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:13 PM
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ATF in motor oil

This was something I learned many years ago back on the farm. In a gasser, if you have lifters making noise...has to be the right kind of noise to work... if you replaced one quart of oil with a quart of ATF, the detergent in the ATF would aid in cleaning the lifters and the noise would go away. We didn't have any vehicles with auto trans so that just meant a trip to town for us(YEAH)
Back in the 70's, I had a 66 Fairlane GT with a 390 that started having some lifter chatter. A friend was over when I dumped in ATF in my oil along with a filter change to lower my oil down the quart of space I needed. He lives in TN now and still calls when he has a problem. I'm no mechanic but he thinks I can fix anything.

Don't ask me about "the right kind of noise". I can't answer that and I can't imitate the sound either. Just something that you know when you hear it and can tell that it's not a bent push rod.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:28 PM
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Man... I'll be the first to post it... ARE YOU PEOPLE NUTS!!!

As many of you have stated... "in the old days... and old timer said & used..." is just that "old days"... these are the new days!!

Todays engines have tighter tolerances, operate with very strict computerized systems and there are many quality products that would or do the same job without the risk of problems or voiding your warranty.

Why you should not use ATF in your oil and or fuel system.

1) $40,000 and you want old school advice?

2) ATF in your oil will loosen large deposits and cause problems - should have been changing oil and filters more often it would seem?

3) ATF in fuel will look like dyed fuel or AG fuel

4) ATF will dilute fuel and change it's properties and is not recommended by any fuel company I know of or any current truck manufacture as well.

5) Some companies even question the use or even if its necessary to use fuel additives as it is, but many of us do. Some people have claimed that they NEVER have and still get 300,000 - 500,000 on their motors?

Common sense would or should dictate that adding oil modifies to your oil chnages the characteristics of the oil and adding ATF to your fuel changes the fuel's as well - for the worse (or no real benefit at least). At least fuel treatments designed for diesels is just that designed for diesels.

Except for antigel and fuel conditoners, nothing but stock air filters, exhausts and and the like for me.

Good luck to the rest of you.

Jeff
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:31 PM
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Information I found on the internet...

From the following site: http://www.dieselpage.com/art0898ua.htm

A known practice especially amongst truckers is the adding of Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) to diesel fuel. According to tests performed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and the International Standards Organization (ISO) the lubrication benefit from ATF is very slight. The effects and consequential damage that could result from the use of ATF in diesel fuel has not been determined. The addition of ATF in diesel fuel also changes the chemical make-up of the diesel fuel which could result in penalties for use of a NON-EPA approved fuel. ATF is not an additive and it's use could result in costly repairs and/or fines, a more proven and effective conditioner should be used when treating diesel fuel..... More on this to come in the next few months..

Jeff
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:34 PM
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More Information as well - for NOT using ATF fluid in your fuel...

Website: http://www.dieselfuelsystems.net/faq.asp

Can I use ATF (automatic transmission fluid) as a lubricant in my fuel?
Since October 1993, some diesel end-users have tried adding automatic transmission fluid (ATF) to diesel fuel to improve the fuel's lubricity. According to the U.S. Army's quarterly fuel and lubricant bulletin (March 1994), laboratory testing using the Ball-on-cylinder lubricity evaluation (BOCLE) had shown that the addition of ATF to a low sulfur fuel does not improve the fuel's lubricity rating. Moreover, the presence of ATF in fuel can adversely affect other performance properties of diesel fuel.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:41 PM
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I am so confused by the info below that I got from the internet, but it souonds technically pretty cool - don't use ATF fluid.

See below...

> *** However if one fills the canister of the fuel filter with ATF when
> changing filters - then one gets 100 % ATF - undiluted !

But the higher concentration is only working for a few seconds (until the filter has
purged) and, as I said in my earlier post the dispersant additive just isn't that powerful
anyway. I believe that what is actually happening in this situation is related to the fact
that ATF is something like 100 times more viscous than diesel. I suspect that when ATF
hits those tiny injector orifices it literally blasts any deposits out of the way.
Although I've never tested this hypothesis, I think that you'd get the same results from a
filter full of an ISO VG 32 pale oil (same viscosity - no additives at all).
>
> ATF is high in the aromatics - all of which are good cleaners ... but
> which have been removed from most diesel ..
>
Actually, ATF has a small proportion of napthenic base stock in its make up which is
different from most automotive/heavy duty oils which are almost entirely paraffinic in
composition*. The reason for that is that the napthenic component imparts a small amount
of swelling to certain rubber seals in an automatic transmission. While it could be said
that 'napthenic is to paraffinic' (lubricants) as 'aromatic is to aliphatic' (solvents),
it would be an exaggeration to describe napthenic oil as being a "cleaner". In any case
the proportion of napthenic base stock in ATF is fairly small since napthenics are not
very good as lubricants and are somewhat more prone to oxidation. I don't know the actual
percentage but if ATF had a high amount of napthenics we would be changing the
transmission fluid in our cars almost as often as the motor oil.


*A bit of speculation: I think that the "high mileage" motor oils that have recently come
on the market have a bit of napthenic content for the same reason that it's put into ATF -
seal swell and, in this case, to counteract seal shrinkage from a lifetime of being
exposed to nothing but paraffinics.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:46 PM
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Thanks for the info Beachbumcook. The reason I asked was to fish for info. That's one thing this site is so good for. I appreciate your information references too.
T
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Old 12-16-2004, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachbumcook
Man... I'll be the first to post it... ARE YOU PEOPLE NUTS!!!

As many of you have stated... "in the old days... and old timer said & used..." is just that "old days"... these are the new days!!
I'll second that. I've never understood humankind's unstoppale urge to "add stuff" to perfectly well engineered systems. I guess that's what makes SEMA a whatever-billion-dollar-a-year industry consortium.

But if you're thinking of adding ATF to your 6.0L, you should first take a close look at the size of the holes the fuel sprays through, and see if you think the thicker ATF glop is going to have a fun time there:

http://www.backglass.org/duncan/injector/

(Click on the successively closer images of the injector tip to get a feel for just how tiny those holes are!)

Duncan
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Old 12-16-2004, 08:32 AM
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