I would like to know your alls thoughts on cam size for a 351w in my 4x4 f150, auto. I want a different cam in it. Having problem deciding which one. I am looking for a cam that has a small lopy idle nothing to radical. Emission is not an issue. lookin for an rpm range in the neigborhood idle-1500 to roughly 5500. trying to stay with stock converter. I have been looking at eldelbrock, lunati or crane, non roller. I've been looking at cams from 268-272 and 280-290, 290- 300 advertised duration. I play lots in mud and on trails plus its a daily driver. Gas milage is not an issue. Any suggestion? Thanks in advance.

 

Look at comp cams 4x4 extreme cams, you find them thru Summit (I prefer summit), Jeggs and Northern auto. They give you great torque thru out the intire rpm range. I mud drag and that is the type of cam I use. There are several different profiles to choose from. I run the 385 sieres, but I am sure they have your engine size.

Hope this may help you.

 

I concur with deerhunter3814. Comp Cams 4X4 XTREME ENERGY Cams are the way to go.

 

Something interesting and you be the judge of how you look at it.

Someone did a couple simulations using the 4X4 extreme energy vs extreme energy, using the same grind number and believe it or not the regular one made more low end torque. I thought that was interesting, there are other factors that the simulated programs don't take into account, so I would say that was one reason for the slight difference, although I found it interesting. I agree though, give comp cams a call 1 800 999 0853, then take the part number they give you to your favorite parts supplier. later

 

Thanks for the input. I looked at summit again and found some cams in the range I am looking for. Now I just need to decide what size.

 

You can call Crane, or Crower, or Comp, and they can all determine which of their cams is right for you. Be prepared to give them information like rear axle ratio and tire size, along with the information you've given us (351W done making power at 5500 RPM, stock converter, etc.)

They may also recommend running a timing chain that allows you to advance or retard your new camshaft. Cloyes makes a good one, I think it's called the "True". I think most Comp cams are ground with 4° advance timing into them, and the True allows 4° advance, straight-up (0), or 4° retarded positions, so you could run up to 8° advance (which is probably too much, even though you want an advanced cam for low-end torque), but discuss that with them as well.

 

Look at either Crane's Powermax, or Comp's Xtreme Energy lineup, and keep it less than 262 adv. on the intake. Both of these are dual pattern cams. Stay away from the 4x4 cams, they have more radical lift numbers for the same duration, which probably won't give you any more power, but it will beat down your valvetrain quicker in a daily-driver situation. Keep in mind with either Powermax or Xtreme Energy, you can't re-use your stock springs, or you'll have wicked valve float around 3,000 RPM. A more cost-effective upgrade would be to throw in a higher-stalling Torque converter. That'll feel like a swift kick in the rear upon takeoff, and it won't hurt your fuel milage or engine longevity so long as you don't get one that stalls higher than 2,400 RPM.

 

Thanks guys you all gave me some other things I had not considered. TorqueKing may I ask why staying under 262 adv would be better. Other then more wear and tear on vavletrain components. As far as daily driver I might drive 10 miles a day not including the weekend wheelin.
Thanks again for the input.

 

I cannot speak for torqueking but I believe he is saying stay with the comp XE262 (262 intake duration) or a smaller grind, not necassarily in general, as it seems a lot of the small grinds have a lot more intake advertised duration. The comp XE268 would put your right at the point you'll wish you had a higher stall converter as it may wanna lunge at idle, it will have a lope. The XE262 will have a slight lope and work with the stock converter.


If you want an opinion, I would forget about the cam for now and go for better cylinder heads. Your hp and tq will increase more with heads vs a cam swap, from idle on up. Even the gt-40p heads would offer a dramatic increase. I would say port your heads but chances are you have the E5's in that 87 351w and the combustion chambers suck at 69cc, you'd be better off picking up a set of E7 (used $50-75) heads and having them ported professionally. If you can afford it, the edelbrock performer or afr 165 would work real well also. Just a thought, later

 

Call Comp cams at 1-800-999-0853 and they will tell you more of what you need. Crane can to but thier number is not toll free.
These guys do this for a living. They can direct you better than the average person.
As far as heads go, that is very true, but also expensive.
The duration of the cam is important if you do not want to go to a stall converter.
If you call Compcams they can tell you what you need for what you want to do.
Good luck.
P.S. Nothing better than off roading.

 

I agree with JW. Cylinder heads will give you what you need in addition to the cam.

 

Deerhunter said it, if you have a stock converter with a cam that's larger than around 262, you'll have slow, fossil-sucking takeoffs that will be rather miserable. For off roading, cylinder head swaps are extremely expensive, and you won't see the benefit in the RPM range you're looking for. A cam is a very good upgrade, but lower gears and a higher stalling converter will really feel like a swift kick in the bumper that no other upgrade can give you. For the money, a converter and a cam are the way to go. When you're off-roading, or even muddin', most of your time is spent just above idle, am I correct? How many times do you hit 5 grand on the trail? I've seen those mud pit drags, and if you compete in those then you have an entirely different set of needs, but just for crawling around in the mud you'll need off-idle torque, and cylinder heads will help with that, but not very much. A good cylinder head swap can gain 70 HP on well-built motors with a well-matched cam and intake, but the HP and TQ gains at low engine speed are very small, and some even lose torque due to oversized intake runners. Lower gears immediately multiplies the torque applied to the wheels, and a stall converter lets your motor engage at a higher engine speed, which also means higher torque to the wheels. Your factory cylinder heads can't flow much more air regardless of the cam, but an aggresive bumpstick (Xtreme Energy or Powermax) will aid in exhaust scavenging, generating a bit more power, definitely more power at the speed you care about than a $1,000 pair of heads. Furthermore, you'd be wasting so much potential if you just changed heads without going to a well-matched cam. Now you're $1,200 in the hole. You'd have a heck of a lot of power, but it wouldn't be as well-suited to your application. It sure sells a lot of magazines though.

Bottom line, if you want to throw mud and crawl up a wall, throw in a dual-pattern cam with a 2,000-2,400 RPM stall converter, and 3.90's or 4.10's in the diffy. You can pull concrete off the earth if you want to with that combo.

 

A properly matched head will increase the lowend torque and hp, even extend useable rpm, more so than a cam swap ever could. Your theory also works in reverse, even though you can only expect a stock cam to do so much with aftermarket heads, you can only expect stock heads to do so much with an aftermarket cam. Converter $375, XE $180, gears $500+ roughly installed. That head swap doesn't look so expensive when you add it up. Suppose its all about perspective.

 

The converter I recommended (assuming C4 trans-no information provided) are $120-$154. I completely agree that quality aftermarket heads are the centerpiece of a great performing motor, but I've spent too much money, built too many motors, and spent too much time off-road to know that the ONLY thing that counts on the trail is torque. Off-idle torque, not Hot Rod magazine's peak torque @ 4,500 RPM. Peak torque is cool on the street, but it's all about what you got while you're crawling at 2,500 RPM. We can both agree that heads will make torque that no stock motor could compare to, but he's looking for entry-level upgrades, and a head swap is about three steps too far at this point. The name of the game is COST-EFFECTIVE. He wants his truck to pull harder, not score bigger on the dyno. Actually, he probably wants both, but I'm pretty sure that a faster, more brutal off-road truck will make him happier than anything else. If he's got 3.90's locked at all four wheels, a B&M Holeshot 2000 with full length headers, an H-pipe, Flowmaster Super Delta 40's, and a full MSD ignition, and he still wants more, then he can swap heads and a cam. There's no need to do open-heart engine surgery unless it's really and truly the next logical step. The cam swap is no big deal, but it's a bit easier to do along with the heads. It'll help slightly even with stock heads, but it will magnify tremendously the benefits of addional airflow from aftermarket heads. This can come later though, get your truck set up for what you want to do, then build the engine accordingly.

 

My guess its a c6, since its a carbed 87 but thats doesn't matter. Who sells these $120 converters you speak of, I might be able to use that information myself?


I get what your saying but a pair of low end heads with net you more off idle torque than a cam swap and provide hp on top.


I feel a cam swap and head swap is about the same as far as skills require but thats my opinion.


I get what your saying though, don't get me wrong. Just throwing a different perspective into the mix. I was getting the vibe he just wants to go faster and not really focused on hard core offroading but I may be mistaken. later