you certainly have done your homework! i like that! very true about ratio's and distance of toss. i just thought you might like to know their potential as they were made. gives a base to work off. i don't think there will be a problem with shear pins unless you pick up something alien. i have to believe that you would let all moving parts spin and warm up before working, rather than being foolish and just "cracking the whip" thanks for the tip on book, will look into this.

 

Croce's 'German' Snogo (tested in the late 1940s) was a two-auger machine 2.7 m wide, made in the US (apparently they were also manufactured under licence in Denmark) but otherwise was very similsr to mine. The auger diameter was 16" and the fan diameter 36", like mine, but only 10" wide. The engine was a Ford V-8 giving 72 bhp at 2400 rpm, and drove the fan through a 4-speed gearbox, giving fan speeds of 132, 260, 475 and 800 rpm (!!). Only tests results at up to 650 rpm are given, but it must have thrown snow well over 200 ft at 800 rpm!

Measured output:
@ 450 rpm - 280 tons/hr Distance cast - 79 ft Overall efficiency - 17%
@ 650 rpm - 120 tons/hr. Distance cast - 112 ft Overall efficiency - 9%

Maximum efficiency (about 19%) at about 58 ft casting distance @ about 370 rpm and 450 tons/hr.

Overall efficienct was defined as ratio of the drive power needed for an ideal lossless machine (with the same tons/hr and casting distance) to the actual power needed to drive the Snogo. The perfect machine is one that just throws the snow the same distance, without air resistance at the optimum (45 degree) discharge angle (elementary ballistic theory - no air resistance, no cutting or compression of the snow, no friction).

Most of the power is actually wasted cutting up the snow and compressing it and in friction between the snow, the augers, fan, casing, discharge chutes, etc. There are also the small gearbox/bearing/chain losses. Overall efficiency (and maximum tons/hr) also drops at very high speeds and very long casting distances due to slowing and scattering of the snow jet due to air-resistance. At very low speeds, efficiency also drops due to the increasing proportion of the total drive power consumed (uselessly) by the augers in 'cutting up' and compressing the snow, although tons/hr continues to increase intil the fan chokes..

Only two blowers (both developed by Croce!) exceeded 20% efficiency and most were much wose than the Snogo (which is why I wanted one). The 'Croce' machines ('hollow-rotor' propellor type) were later developed and marketed by Beilhack, in Germany (now sold by Schmidt).

Sorry about all this stuff - I'll shut up now - nothing to do with Ford trucks! Like someone said before: definitely 'off topic'!

Cheers,

Tony

 

these sno-go's were built to work, and last. the biggest reason for people selling now seems to be tha fact that, most of the time, you can not get parts quick enough to keep unit in service. let's face it, they don't break when they are not needed. so- with all your info in hand, i say----put it together and blow some snow!

 

Tony--

Your part numbers match up to mine--you have the same unit. The blower transmission is not the weak link in the system--the auger chain drive is. Ten years of regularly blowing snow, and I have yet to break a blower shear pin. I use Marvel on the chain ever time I take it out. I break auger drive pins about every three hours of work, on average. Parts are not a problem for me; many items are readily available off the shelf type stuff, and once in a while I have had to make something. I live in farm and ranch country, and one thing I've learned from that is "maintenance, maintenance, maintenance". I look for potential problems when it's nice and warm, and I fix them then. I've never had down time with the unit in the winter. A governor on whatever engine you use would seem to me to be mandatory. I don't think power would ever be a problem (within reasonable limits), but RPM's sure would be. You've got very heavy spinning parts, and they are going to be slightly out of balance no matter what you do. It seems to me that too many RPM's is going to cause problems, not power. I am enjoying the technical discussion you guys are having, but I agree with Petey--get it running right, and go blow some snow!

Jim

 

Thanks Jim,

That's great news.

It will surely accept whatever power the RD 450 produces - I'll just have to find out for sure what that is - do you know? I take your point about the maintenance bit, but, at the moment it's more like 'manufacture' than maintenance! I've been welding up the fan housing this afternoon - completely rusted away at the bottom. Let's hope I've got it roughly circular or the fan blades will machine it away again!

Many thanks for your help. I'll snd you a pic when it's looking like a Snogo again. Sorry to pinch your space you trucking guys!

Tony.

 

it's too bad you live sooo far away, as i have a 46 sno-go that just got retired from service with a new replaced continental power unit on it at my disposal. i have not yet purchased this, but have known truck for over 40 years. it is all there! as far as "pinching " our space? do not even think about it! we are here and happy to help save and preserve these (old dogs). jim, you are dead on with rotating, spinning masses having harmonic (issues). slow and easy gets it done without all out destruction. are your auger bearings tight, or a bit sloppy and letting augers wobble? or, is it just choking up with snow? maybe moving just a bit too fast for blower to dispose of snow? maybe bolt holes are egged out? this should not be the weak link. ( i suppose it's better than trashing unit). just curious.

 

Hi Petey,

Yeah, it's bolt holes egged out. I run it slow; I don't let it bog down. My auger bearings are good. My "weak link" idea comes from just looking at that chain; the metal in each link looks like the least beefy piece of the whole system. I've known mine for about thirty years; it had one bad owner, and I know he broke a chain once. Mine is all there, too. I have some pictures on Craig's list for Boise, Idaho under "trucks", I think. I also have a great picture of ol' Lucky blowing snow, not on Craig's. I love that truck, and I'd like to find someone who wants it to do a restoration. The city now plows our road (about a mile), and, just like a border collie, this truck wants to work and has many good years left. I love the thread; it's great to know there are others out there who love these remarkable machines.

Jim

 

Petey - I wish I could afford to freight your spare Snogo unit over to the UK - save me a LOT of work!

It's interesting the way you guys are all worried about over-revving and the need for a governor. I'm a diesel man, and, as far as I'm aware, this is simply not a problem with diesels - they all have built-in mechanical (flyweight) or pneumatic governors as part of the injector pump. You can suddenly take them off maximum power (eg. dip the clutch when pulling hard up a hill) and the engine revs do increase, but only by about 5% to the maximum no-load (governed) speed. Over-revving is NEVER a problem!

Do your concerns arise because the old Budas, Hercules, RDs, Continental etc. petrol engines were NOT governed? Surely they must have been for this sort of application.

Re 'egged' (shear) bolt holes, a good remedy is to bore them oversize (together, so they are exactly in line) and press HARDENED bushes uinto each half. This restores the correct fit on the bolts and keeps the edges where they shear sharp. I've done this before on an IH hay baler main (PTO) drive with good results.

Yep Jim, border collies are great., too We've run sheep with them for years here - almost in Border country!

Tony.

 

My RD is governed; I don't know about the others, but if they're gas, I assume they are. That is a good fix for the shear pin holes--I think I'd have to take the two shafts out to do it right--maybe not--but it's been easier just to replace the pins--just takes a couple minutes.

 

i was going to suggest rebushing holes, it is a sound solution. as for over revving? my info says all aux. engines were governed. my concern is not the engine, but, rather, all the rotating assemblies spinning too fast. this would be catastrophic on old, used, units. i, personally, am not a fan of slipping clutch. i would much rather gear down and let her work. however--- i do not have experience working these units on anything other than curbside clean-up. road duty is most likely different. i could be educated here.

 

I don't think clutch-slipping will be needed, except, perhaps in drifts over 7 ft deep - but even that will need two 'bites' to clear!

My simple sums suggest that in 3ft 6in of snow with a cut of 7 ft 6in (I shall have to fit 'wings' to the 80" wide Snogo to allow the tractor room to manoeuvre), there are about 5133 cu yards of snow to shift per mile. With a density of, say, 20 lb/cu ft (reasonably soft drifted snow) that gives less than 1250 tons per mile. Even if I can only shift about 600 tons/hr with the Snogo (I think it will shift nearer 900 at low casting distances), that's just under 0.5 mph clearing speed - easy in 1st (or even 2nd) gear, at lowish (tractor engine) revs.

I've also just done some simple sums on the torque needed to shear the two fan shear bolts. With an overall reduction ratio of 7:1, the maximum engine torque produced by the Cummins 6BT will definitely shear them straight off (without shock)! The input shaft to the gearbox pinion won't be very happy (longterm) either, since there's a 2:1 reduction 'upstream' of it. (unlerss it's VERY strong steel)! Hey ho - back to the dfrawing board!

The RD 450 and similar engines were OK at 145 hp with the Snogo because they ran the fan faster (without significant reduction before the blower gearbox) so the input torques to the gearbox were much lower.

Maybe I should take your advice and find a 4BT - but they're like gold dust over here - crazy prices! A non-turbo Perkins 6-354 might do as well - about 100 hp and 260 ft lb torque against 160+ hp and 430+ ft lb for the Cummins. Easier to find a 6-354 over here, anyway - and probably only about £350.

Tony.

 

Petey,

Yeah, the solution is to run it slow. The governor seems to keep my engine at good RPM's, and I simply listen to the engine. If it slows down, I slow down. You're right; the gearing is so good on these things that you can run it almost at a slow crawl if you have to. In fact, this is exactly what the operator's manual says to do. I only run into this problem with deep snow, or heavy wet snow. I have a blade on an old Landcruiser; I make a berm with that, and then blow the berm out with Lucky. Sometimes the berm is as much as 4 feet deep, but Lucky just blows it right out, slowly. I've also cut the road wider with a verticle cut that's taller than the Snogo. It's slow but it cuts and blows it. It'll also blow ice chunks (the augers break it up) and slush, but you go real slow with this.

Jim

 

you have a 10-1 aux underdrive with about 2.85-1 1st gear, it should crawl.

 

Jim has a 10:1 crawler tranny on his truck, but I don't! My SnoGo is on a tractor, remember, - so I just have the standard 8 - speed tractor tranny that gives 0.8 mph in bottom gear at 2400 engine rpm - so about 0.3 mph at tick-over. Still slow enough, though.

Tony.

 

tony, any chance you can send me some pics of this set-up? you should have my e-mail address. like to see what's really there.