My question, will custom mixed single stage paint last in the can(s) for 5 months or so? My reason for asking…

I’ve been in a race against time to get my (badly rotting away) truck repaired so I can paint it before it gets too cold. My workshop,a pole barn in northeast Ohio, is not insulated and the forecast for the foreseeable future is temps remaining below 60. All the repairs, floor, rockers, pillars, bed sides, doors, fenders and finally core support, are done and short of a lot of wet sanding, it’s ready for paint.


Following the advice of the guys at Hopkins & Kip, I’ve already sprayed the bedsides, doors and fender with a PPG 2-part epoxy primer, MP-170 & MP-175 (they said it was gray, but it’s more an icky slate blue). They said that I should use the epoxy because it will seal better and prevent rust should I take months between it and final coat. They also said I should do whatever filler or skim coating on top of the epoxy. The down side, I was told, is that I only have a 3 day window to apply the top coat of paint, after that, the epoxy gets too hard and paint won’t stick. They said that when I was finally ready to paint, I’d have to scuff the entire truck and spray it with epoxy again (I guess to soften it up?), then shoot my top coat.


So, regardless of the temperature this weekend, I’m going to get more of the PPG epoxy and shoot the entire truck, for some areas it will be the second coat, so it will remain sealed for the @#$^&*! winter. Since there is always a possibility for a brief “Indian Summer” where we get a week long blast of 70 degrees in November, I’m thinking of going ahead and buying the top coat paint ($120 worth of medium-ish metallic silver) and just holding on to it should that warmer weather occur. Is this a bad idea? Granted I will have to spray yet another coat of epoxy.


If by some miracle this warmer weather would happen, can I shoot the epoxy primer AND the top coat in the same day? The re-coat time for the epoxy is 30 minutes.

Or, should I spray a different primer/sealer product this weekend that I won’t have to re-apply again later, just to be able to top coat it? Is there a product that will seal & protect the truck for the winter in case warmer weather doesn’t happen?


Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

I can't answer your primer questions, but I thought I'd throw out another idea for consideration... could you rig a 'paint booth' in the barn, perhaps using tarps. Just big enough for the truck and for you to move around. You could easily warm up that confined space with a propane or electric heater to get the temperature up another eight or 10 degrees. If you use a combustable heat source you'd want to shut it off while actually spraying, and ventilate the place prior to lighting it again.

Just a thought.

 

<cr>
First, remember the temp of the metal is the important factor, not the air temp. Make sure the metal has warmed to the proper temp before you paint.

Second, a rigged paint booth works great but if you use propane heat, a lot of moisture is produced. The moisture will condense on cold surfaces, including the vehicle you are painting. The solution is to bring the vehicle surface up to the room temp.

Third, I'm not a PPG user so take what I say next with a grain of salt.

I normally use epoxy over the entire vehicle, do my bodywork, apply 2K primer, and then my basecoat. Since about all I do is restoration work, it may be weeks before the 2K primer is applied over the epoxy. All I do is scratch the epoxy and apply the 2K. I never apply an additional coat of epoxy before applying the 2K.

All of us get locked into a procedure that works for us. The guys you got your info from, may be doing the same. Since they have always put a second coat of epoxy on and they have never had a failure, it must be the right thing to do. Right?

If you don't have them, I would suggest getting the p-sheets for the epoxy you are using. You may find you don't need that additional coat of epoxy.

BTW, it sounds like you are planning on shooting the basecoat over the top of the epoxy. For about $70 and a few hours of blocksanding, you can add to the appearance of the finished project by putting down some 2K filler primer between the epoxy and basecoat.

 

Thanks Aeskisu.
I've got the sheet for the MP170 right infront of me and it says in the drying times area:
"MP170 must be scuffed and reapplied if allowed to sit for more than 3 days". 70% of the truck has already been shot with this stuff, so I guess I'm stuck with using it.

Regarding the 2K primer (a new term to me), how long would you suggest that I could leave the truck coated with that before I shoot a single stage or base coat on top.

What I'm getting at is I don't want to have to keep spraying layer upon layer of expensive epoxy so to get the truck sealed and then be able to paint it. If I can fire a last coat of the epoxy this Saturday (the only forecasted decent day for at least a week) and then follow up in the same day with the 2K, will the 2K primer keep in usable condition until warmer weather?

Thanks again

 

<cr>
2K primer is a 2-part urethane based, high-build primer. Uro-Fill by Evercoat is just one example. PPG will have their own version. You can ever buy toners for some that will tint it to the color of your basecoat. Not a bad idea since a chip in your color coat won't show up like a sore thumb. Tinted 2K seems to be rather high priced though.

2K fills in low spots and scratches. After applying it, you dust it with a contrasting guidecoat color. Then you sand. Any low spots will show up because of the contrasting color. You fix the low spots, apply some more 2K, and sand again. You do this until everything is flattened out. By the way, your polyester fillers work great on 2K.

Scratch your epoxy and apply your next coat of epoxy. Wait the recommended amount of time for the epoxy to flash off. Apply a couple coats of 2K primer. Keep your vehicle parked out of the rain and snow. Start your blocksanding whenever you feel like it. 2K primer will not attract moisture like your old lacquer primers.

 

I should preface this with a bit of information. This is by no means a show truck. It's an '89 F150C, Reg Cab, Long Bed, 4X4, 5.0L, auto, that I picked up a few years ago for $2000. I use it for mulch, gravel and land fill trips and when the snow is a foot deep. Despite its ridiculously low miles (72K) it had bad body rot on the bedsides and doors (and everywhere else I've found out). It's been a labor of love rebuilding the various ills of the truck (all on the cheap). Now I just want it to be all one color (paint, not primer)

Last question, I hope. Let's say that I manage to shoot the epoxy and a coat or two of 2K primer this weekend, then we get hit by an ice age until April. I have no choice but to park the truck outside and will want to drive it on occasion.

What would be the harm in leaving the truck outside all winter, then finishing up the paint job after the thaw?

 

It's not a good thing to leave primer exposed for a long period of time, but if you have no choice, I don't think it's the end of the world for all your prep work. My advise would be to do all you can this weekend with the 2K primer etc., but when you finish up for the weekend, leave yourself time to cover EVERYTHING you do with the epoxy. It's probably more resistant to the winter elements than filler primers. Try to park inside your barn as much as possible this winter. Rain, snow and direct sun are it's enemies.

I've used PPG's "DP" epoxies, but not the MP - I'm guessing they're similar. DP is the same way - after a few days it should be scuffed prior to recoating. You may want to check with your jobber or label directions for the MP - if it can be used as a wet on wet sealer, you can quickly scuff your winter long old MP (red scotch brite would probably work good enough) and seal and paint the same day next spring. IMO rescuffing is not a big deal. Even if you use a different type of sealer, it should stick okay to quickly scuffed epoxy primer that's a few months old.

Buy all your supplies now if you wish, their shelf life should last well into next year. Just keep them from freezing.

 

Well, it’s all one color now. Granted it’s a really putrid one. I went with the PPG MP182 2K urethane with MH165 hardener. Did you every play with “Silly Putty” as a kid (or as an adult, but I won’t judge). My truck is now the same icky light brown-dirty pink color.

I lucked out and there was an auto body guy at the paint store when I went in buy my supplies. He advised to (after 180 – 220 scuffing the whole thing) epoxy (MP170) only the bare metal spots, then shoot the entire truck with 2K. He claimed to have a lot of expirience with the PPG MP products. His shop is near where I live, so I figured he wouldn't steer me wrong. After primer, there is one section, above the passenger rear wheel, where I can see a low spot, but I’m not going to do anymore filler work (I've re-worked this area 5 or 6 times and it's as good as it's gonna get). Today at lunch, I’m going to the supply shop again to get the finish color and will shoot it this evening. Yesterday, while spraying the primer, the thermometer in my barn read 58 degrees, and tonight should be a bit warmer. Thanks, Aekisu & Marc9000, for all your advice and I’ll let you know when I’ve got some pictures posted.

 

My favorite commercial is the one for, I believe, Home Depot where it shows a dejected looking man and they over dub in his voice, "I am not an electrician" and in the background you see his ceiling fan exploding sparks. Another shot is an equally disappointed man, "I am not a carpenter" and you see his french door fall over and shatter. The best is, "I am not a painter" and the zomm away from a man laying on his porch roof with a spilled gallon of white paint flowing past him.

Well now it's my turn, "I am not a body man!" I thought I had the bedsides nice and straight after welding in repair patches. I'd done at least 5 rounds of filler and a few of spot putty, 2 coats epoxy and 2 coats 2K urethane primer. The bedsides really looked and felt good. Sure, then I go and spray acrylic enamel single stage paint (1989 Ford Code 1D, gray metallic) and GOOD GRIEF!!!! The shine on the paint magnified every tiny deviation in the surface. Stay tuned for pictures.

My hat goes off to those of you out there who can make a body panel smooth.

 

<cr>
Yupe !! As you found out, paint doesn't hide anything.

If you have any paint left over, how about reshooting it? I think we can point you in the right direction to get things smoothed out.

 

Thanks. Yes, there still is a bit of paint left, but I'm going to hold onto that until I see how close the color match is to the ARE fiberglas cap I have. I think I've put enough effort into this truck for now. If it's still bugging me by spring, maybe I'll tackle the bed again and re-shoot it.

I'd be willing to bet the majority of the problem was due to my (lack of experience and) using sanding blocks that were too short for smoothing such a wide area. I saw a 17" flexible block at the body shop supply store, but the cheap skate in me wouldn't spring for it or even the 17" paper. Duh!!!

I should also mention that after shooting a near perfect coat of paint on the passenger bedside, granted it was on top of my poor body work, I turned the wrong way and dragged the air hose across the wet paint. Despite that and a couple of other contact infractions, and the bugs landing on fresh spray, the overall job is actually better than poor.

I think I saw in another thread, "Good from far, but far from good". It fits.

My wife has been kind enough to remind me of my original goals; To get the truck repaired, not rusting anymore, and all one color. With that in mind and that this is my first ever attempt at major body and paint work, I have no reason not to be satisfied.

Thanks again for all yours and others advice.

 

<cr>
It's the customer who has to be happy with the end result. Since you're happy, it's a good job. Shoot us some pics when you have the chance.

 

I remember that feeling exactly. Worked on the area under the headlights on a 53 Dodge flatbed truck I had. It looked so good in primer, but the color showed all the waves - I couldn't believe it. Really discouraging, I never re-did it. After some time went by I got over it and tried something else. Don't remember what it was, but I know it was at least somewhat better. Even after doing a lot of bodywork over the years, I can usually find a little ripple in anything i do, by looking down the edge of a panel. It's tough for me to get them dead on perfect.

Get that 17" block. That, and what you've learned this time, and your next job will be MUCH better!!

 

Yet another question.
Just so I could torture myself further, I turned a big blinding halogen light on the painted finish for a better inspection, and noticed a bit of cloudy overspray on the hood and roof.

Will a rubbing compound take that off (this is single stage metallic paint)? If so, what type of compound should I look for?

I don't have, and don't want to buy, an electric buffer, so it will have to be a manual job.

 

<cr>
No buffing on that single-stage metallic paint. If you do, you'll need a new paint job.