any carb can be tuned to run ethanol, just like you can for methanol, and many of the same parts as far as the seals and jets, you'd just have to tinker with it to get you tune right. You can get as stated into the 12:1 to 13:1 on pure ethanol, but that's all you'll ever run again.
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the workhorse:86 F250 4x4 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, 4.10 axles, holley red electric pump
the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab, 4.10 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, 47RH auto with Gear Vendors overdrive
the project: 77 F250 Camper special 400 4 speed Iowa Chapter leader
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!!
Although Ethanol has higher octane than gasoline, pure ethanol only has 60% of the energy of an equal volume of gasoline, therefore you'll use roughly 40% more fuel. So given the current cost of gasoline in my area $1.79/gal, Ethanol would have to be priced at $1.07 a gallon in order to get the same bang for my buck! Not to mention I would have to fill up almost twice as often.... If anyone experiancing an increase in fuel economy, it is a result of gasoline ehtanol blends containing low percentages of ethanol that increase the octane level and only slightly lower the energy content. This increase in octane allow some vehicles to advance the timing and thus make more power, hence a slight increase in the thermodynamic effeciency of the engine. I would argue that if you have a vehicle that can dynamically advance and retard its timing you would see equal results in fuel economy by just upgrading premium gasoline, 93 Octane.
As for reprograming your vehicles computer, this will have to be done and the max pulse width signal going to the fuel injectors might not be able to compensate for the energy difference between the two fuels. Which will result in the need for larger fuel injectors or an adjustable fuel presure regulator can be installed and the system should be able to regulate the proper amount of volume per squirt into the cylinder. If you decide to go the Adj Fuel Pres reg route, keep in minde this will decrease the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) of the injectors.
Although Ethanol has higher octane than gasoline, pure ethanol only has 60% of the energy of an equal volume of gasoline, therefore you'll use roughly 40% more fuel.
Actually at 60% efficiency you need 1.66 times the volume to correct the deficiency.
I've read that alcohol is more like 50% the energy of gasoline. Whether that is true or not I don't know but if it were you would need 2 times the volume to equal the energy of 1 unit of gas.
Running pure ethanon or even E85 on a vehicle not built for ethanol will cause problems such as eating rubber fuel delivery components.
Last edited by furball69 : 01-22-2005 at 01:14 PM.
Some stuff i have stored in wordpad from websites I've run across:
If you change over to home-made fuel, carry enough to get you home again. Henry Ford built the Model T to run on either gas or alcohol, because "There are more stills in this country than gas stations!"We used to be able to buy alcohol back in the 1920's, until Standard Oil of Pennsylvania started the "gas wars" by selling gas at $0.05/gallon for just long enough to run the "Alky sellers" out of business.
The 4 basic myths propagated by the petrochemical industry are:
1. Ethanol doesn't have as much energy as gasoline. 86,000 BTU's vs. 126,000 BTU's.
Answer: Burning it in an open flame to boil water is not the same as burning it in an internal combustion engine. Ethanol burns slower whch is better for transfering power to the piston. It is a well know fact that only 14 to 18% of the energy in gasoline is used effectively, as most of it is lost in heat, as well as some unburned emisions. I ahve been able to get the same mileage out of 180 proof as I did with unleaded.
3. Ethanol is highly corrosive.
This is nothing that can't be solved with a modern understanding of coatings, gasket materials, adhesives, and fuel additives In fact, VW, GM, Ford and many other companies have made ethanol fuel cars designed to run on alcohol. The other issue is that E85, which is 85% anhydrous alcohol and 15% gasoline has corrosion inhibitors to enable this fuel to be sold on the open market (not just for small trial programs.
Actually at 60% efficiency you need 1.66 times the volume to correct the deficiency.
I've read that alcohol is more like 50% the energy of gasoline. Whether that is true or not I don't know but if it were you would need 2 times the volume to equal the energy of 1 unit of gas.
Running pure ethanon or even E85 on a vehicle not built for ethanol will cause problems such as eating rubber fuel delivery components.
Ethanol has 11500BTU's per Pound, Gasoline 18700 to 19100BTU's/Lb
11500/18900= Aprox 60%... Is it possible you read about methanol? Methanol has about 56% of the BTU/Lb (8600/Lb) as Gasoline. Keep in mind this is only a energy comparison of the two fuels, the Stoichiometric ratio would play a bigger factor as to the amount of fuel used. Personaly I like nitromethane...
Hell. I like anything that has nitro in it (lol).
As for the fuel delivery components you are correct, not just any rubber will do! Also, there is a corrosion issue with certan types of metals, I belive auto manufactures addressed this in the mid 90's when the 90/10 blend of gasohol started to appear. Currently fuel systems from the mid 90's and up are using some plastics, stainless steel and neopreme.
If ethanol has fewer BTU's, couldn't you regain the loss through the increased efficiency of higher compression? Say you have two engines, identical except one had 9:1 compression and the other had 13:1. The engine running 9:1 gets 87 octane gasoline, the engine running 13:1 gets E85. Which one will get better mileage?
You must have misunderstood my comment, I never said you couldnt use 10% ethanol.
The above is not true, as any and every FFV has a manifold heater and other special componets, especially seals, even fuel injected models.
FFV vehicles have sensors that adjust the timing according to how much e85 is in the tank in comparison to regular gas.
Simply reprograming the ecu on a non-FFV could allow you to run e85, but you couldn't run regular gas as the timing would be way out of wack, unless you re-programed the Ecu back.
I know that my '00 Taurus FFV gets 3-5 mpg less on E-85 than regular gas. (<--example of a vehicle to run E-85 safely in)
I agree with the above statement that you lose MPG with Ethanol in the gas, but I also have the following questions that I origanally posted in the 4.2V6 forum.
I am wondering what long term effects gas with Ethanol has on our engine parts such as valves, pistons and fuel pumps? I have been reading in the news that Minnesota is trying to make a state law to mandate 20% ethanol in all gas, they already offer the nations largest supply of E85. Also does the ethanol act as a cleaner? I put 7.4 gal. of E85 in my tank on top of the rest at 10% today to see if it may act as a fuel injection cleaner. Will the computer be able to compansate for the leaner burn?
Dan
as for the ethanol being a cleaner, it cetainly is. I have run 10% all the time in my vehicles, and have yet to see any abnormal problems from doing so, and my whole family does the same, and the same results. I had to replace a carb on my 83 trans am a while back due to the choke linkage mounting being broke, and it was as clean as the day it was built. Ethanol will clean the varnish deposits of regular gasoline, That is why it gets blamed for clogging injectors and such, if it is run after the vehicle had always run non ethanol, it will break the varnish loose and clog things up. I have run E85 through many vehicles, and have not seen any adverse effects. I have not, however, been able to run it continuous, as it is not as readily available in the areas I run. I do run 10% all the time or at least when it is economically feasible. Most of the time around here it is cheaper or the same as the non ethanol, but that isn't always the case.
__________________
the workhorse:86 F250 4x4 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, 4.10 axles, holley red electric pump
the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab, 4.10 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, 47RH auto with Gear Vendors overdrive
the project: 77 F250 Camper special 400 4 speed Iowa Chapter leader
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!!
There are a few around Des Moines, and a few other places, but you're right, there isn't many... at least not convienient. Supposedly there is one in your neck of the woods, will have to look it up for you...
__________________
the workhorse:86 F250 4x4 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, 4.10 axles, holley red electric pump
the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab, 4.10 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, 47RH auto with Gear Vendors overdrive
the project: 77 F250 Camper special 400 4 speed Iowa Chapter leader
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!!
it doesn't look too good for one being right there for you, but there are a number around the state. here's a good source to find where the stations are located: http://www.e85fuel.com/
__________________
the workhorse:86 F250 4x4 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, 4.10 axles, holley red electric pump
the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab, 4.10 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, 47RH auto with Gear Vendors overdrive
the project: 77 F250 Camper special 400 4 speed Iowa Chapter leader
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!!
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