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  #1  
Old 10-18-2004, 07:20 PM
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Scouder Scouder is offline
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How big can a 460 get?

Please pardon my ignorance, I typically hang out in the FE forum, and I don't know alot about 460s.

I am curious. If somebody wanted to built a Killer 385 series, using aftermarket components, how big can it get? I am unfamiliar with the bore/stroke combinations available, but I'm sure I have read about 700+ci.

Any input would be apprecitated.

-Scouder
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Old 10-18-2004, 08:38 PM
Brad Johnson Brad Johnson is offline
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A 577 is about as big as it gets with a standard block - 0.080 overbore and 4.5" stroke, and even that is teetering on the edge. Anything more than that and we're talking lots of extremely expensive machine work and high-dollar limited production parts. For something on the more sensible side you can go with a 521 - 4.3 stroke and 0.030 over bore. It's do-able with off the shelf parts and gives you some room to grow. The same combo with a .080 overbore will give you a 533 but that's about as far as you would want to take a stock block. Some blocks will take more but, again, it's all about how much time and money you have to spend doing it.

Depending on how big your wallet is, you can get 800-plus ci out of an aftermarket 385-based block, but you are talking about a professionally built custom one-off engine that can easily run half a hundred thou'. These are single purpose racing engines designed to life life a quarter mile at a time and would be totally unusable in anything remotely resembling a street application.

If you're not in the mood to build, RCI will happily sell you one of their all aluminum 600 ci street engines. 650 HP and 750 lb-ft torque on pump gas in a 460-sized package that weighs the same as an iron-blocked 351. All you have to do is send them a nice letter and a check for $25,000.

Brad

Last edited by Brad Johnson; 10-18-2004 at 08:47 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2004, 09:01 PM
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I guess I should be more specific. I already have an aluminum 511 FE. Probably in the neighborhood of 700hp/700tq at sea level, give or take a little. I am thinking that if I do another exotic engine it will probably be 385 based, and be large displacement. And it never hurts to start planning early.

What I was thinking was a big bore aluminum aftermarket block, assuming they are available, and a long arm crank. If I could get up in the 650+ci range, with a good induction system, I should be able to get some awesome power (800ish) and still have a fairly broad powerband an great low end torque.

-Scouder
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Last edited by Scouder; 10-18-2004 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:48 PM
Brad Johnson Brad Johnson is offline
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Quote:
What I was thinking was a big bore aluminum aftermarket block, assuming they are available, and a long arm crank. If I could get up in the 650+ci range, with a good induction system, I should be able to get some awesome power (800ish) and still have a fairly broad powerband an great low end torque.
Then here is your next block. This aluminum bad boy will handle bores up to 4.625 and strokes to 4.5. Works out to 600 cid.

http://www.racepartsdistribution.com/M6010-A96103.htm

This is production version with the 10.32 deck height. They will custom out a block for you with deck heights up to 12.0" which are capable of displacements up to 815 cubic inches.

Just for fun I ran some DD sims on this bad boy. Keep in mind that feeding 800 cu inch at 7000 RPM require 1600 CFM!!!!!! The software kept upchucking a hairball on the numbers until I hogged the ports out to - ready for this? - 400 cfm on the exhaust and 500 cfm on the intakes. Per port! The best cam setup ended up being the Crane 345-2S-14. It's a lopey, high-strung critter even in a 533, but in this beastie it's a stump pulling torque generator with peak numbers under 5500 RPM.

Keep in mind the following numbers are on pump gas and are made at a modest 11.0:1 CR.

RPM HP / Torque
2000 314 / 824
2500 445 / 934
3000 555 / 971
3500 661 / 992
4000 754 / 990
4500 837 / 977
5000 898 / 943
5500 915 / 873
6000 891 / 780
6500 819 / 661
7000 725 / 543

That's right. 915 horsepower and 992 lb-ft of torque on pump gas! This thing makes more torque at the lowest point in it's powerband than most street mills make at max. The torque it makes at idle is more than most good aftermarket driveline parts are rated for.

In a 4000 lb car this thing would be capable of high nines at the track. That is, if you could find enough wheel and tire to hold it on the ground and didn't twist the frame into a pretzel the first time you nailed the loud pedal. Knock the weight down to just under 3000 lbs and it's a solid 9.0 second performer. In a 2200 lb car (like a race-ready pro-street Mustang) you're looking at somewhere in the 8.30's at just over 160 mph.

Ready to ruin some driveline parts!

Brad

p.s. - c'mon lottery!
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2004, 10:26 AM
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Now THAT would be a monster. And they are showing the block priced less than what I paid for mine. I doubt I would go clear to 815, but 700 would be tempting. Built to a mild mannered 1.2HP per inch would yield 840HP, and have torque that would pull the fillings out of your teeth. I wonder what I would use for heads. Even mildy built it would require some serious ports.

-Scouder
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Old 10-21-2004, 12:07 PM
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Does anyone know anything about the "Eliminator" blocks that Flatlander is selling? They use an iron block but can be bored to well over 600ci. Their prices are very reasonable but I'm just wondering if anyone knows what their quality is like. Looks like there's about 150 pounds difference between the aluminum blocks and the iron which I could live with at a savings of over $2000. RPD has iron blocks for good prices as well but it doesn't look like you can bore them too far.
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Old 10-21-2004, 07:05 PM
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The Eliminator block can be bored safely to 4.7 inches. That's a .340" overbore!! With a 4.3 inch stroke, that's 597 Cubic inches. Sounds fun, don't you think?
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:34 PM
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Being the overkill type, it sounds fantastic.

-Scouder
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  #9  
Old 10-23-2004, 06:38 AM
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Feeding 700+ cubic inches you would HAVE to go with A460 or bigger heads. Several people are now making A460 like heads. IDT, EFX, and even Trick Flow themselves have started making the A460's again. I heard their new version of the A460's comes with bigger ports off the shelf. If you want the ultimate wedge type cylinder head for the big block ford then get a set of the ported C460's. Bennett Racing has some great ones, as does Sonny's. http://www.bennettracing.com/products/bigblockford.html
John Kaase has a great set of Hemi heads for the 385 series.
http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com...ine_heads.html
But your wallet better be very, very fat.
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  #10  
Old 10-23-2004, 01:32 PM
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(supressing evil chuckle as you pop the hood to show a prospective victim) "Nothing special, just a 460 with some good parts. It runs okay."

Brad
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  #11  
Old 10-23-2004, 09:45 PM
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I would look at a set of ex-514 heads, and send them out to Jon Kaase, and have him work some magic on them probably even get into the 500cfm range, and there is a 675 on ebay right now with the 12" deck block http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33615
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Old 10-23-2004, 11:38 PM
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Click the image to open in full size.
675" 1200+ hp and 1050 ft pounds of torque. Now that ought to get my E-350 up to merge speed before the end of the on ramp!
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2004, 07:46 AM
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Ford 460 SVO Block/806 cu. in. (bored to 4.625), Scat forged billet crank w/6.000 stroke from $5199 for the rotating assembly. http://www.flatlanderracing.com/strokerford-460806.html

Eliminator 429-460 10.3 Blocks $2699
Capable of 4.700” bore diameter with a nominal .200” wall thickness

At 1.5 HP/CI this will get you to a naturally aspirated 1200 HP. Is that radical enough? Better look at a C-460 head, not an A-460, for that kind of air flow, you need to thinking big....no biger than that....
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Old 10-25-2004, 11:23 AM
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Hmmm, over 1000 lb-ft torque. Won't that alter the space-time continuum or somethin'?

Brad
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Old 10-25-2004, 07:44 PM
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When my wife hits the loto, this is one of the first things I'm going to spend her money on.....lol...this and a 2005 Mustang to put it in....and 2 turbos for it...and a 500 shot of nitrous...and...and.... Thud!.... (I pass out not from hyper-ventalating...)
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Old 10-25-2004, 07:44 PM
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