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Old 10-12-2004, 10:36 PM
kfaison kfaison is offline
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6.0 and BioDiesel

What's the story with PSD 6.0 and BioDiesel. the guys at the station say that any diesel can run the bio but Ford says not to run more than (I think) 5% bio. What gives?
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Old 10-12-2004, 11:47 PM
Super Steve Super Steve is offline
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The 6.0 powerstroke, being the high performance machine that it is, cannot tolerate a high cholesterol diet.
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Old 10-13-2004, 06:22 AM
Frobozz Frobozz is offline
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All the manufacturers are currently in CYA mode with biodiesel. Because the ASTM specs for it are fairly new, there have been quality issues with it previously... not to mention processors who don't adhere to the ASTM spec, or homebrewers! So they are trying to avoid finger-pointing matches over fuel issues by saying "don't use it." There's nothing at all inherent about the engine or fuel system that would prevent even 100% biodiesel use.

Interesting trivia tidbit: the new Jeep Liberty Diesel is going to ship from the factory with B5 in the tank.

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Old 10-13-2004, 07:42 AM
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Why would you want to? I checked locally here and 100% biodiesel is $3.40 a gallon. It is $.05 more a gallon for a 5% blend. Until they start selling it for less than petroleum base, forget it. I read somewhere on biodiesel.org's site that International did not recommend or not recommend. They were very non-committal. Some were a little more outgoing. None of the engine manuafacturers recommended biodiesel. See statements by manufacturers at http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/f...arranties.shtm



Here is a bulletin from Ford:

Ford's Position on Biodiesel:
Ford is advising that any of their vehicles powered by a diesel engine, regardless of manufacturer, may exhibit engine or fuel system problems when using fuels with greater than 5% Biodiesel. Any problems when using fuels containing more than 5% Biodiesel should be referred to the fuel manufacturer. Ford only recomends using fuels containing no more than 5% Biodiesel (B5) in their diesel powered vehicles. In addition, as per World Wide Fuel Charter (WWFC) catagory 1-3, fatty acid methyl esters (FAME) must meet EN14214 and ASTM D 6751 specifications. Broadcast Message 0884
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Old 10-13-2004, 08:47 AM
LOOnatic LOOnatic is offline
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I have run Biodiesel in the 6.0 and i can say with confidence that it loves it.

In San Diego i can buy B20 from a fuel station for the same price as petroleum pump diesel.
Yes, SB is right in that refined B100 from the pump costs over $3 but i have run it and also "homebrew" B100 and also B100 from purchased from a co-op group(homebrew and co-op biodiesel alot cheaper ,ie, no highway taxes involved)-sold as ,cough,cough....fuel additive.

No doubt about it, the truck runs noticably smoother on the Bio (documented and proven higher lubricity than petroleum based #2).
All that with a nice mild french fry smell instead of the eye burning diesel fumes.

Anyway, the quality control issues SB points are are accurate and yes Ford says B5 only.

Some people think your crazy for putting anything besides #2 diesel in your truck but thats the illusion big-oil wants you to believe.
I'm no hippy and i'm stating first hand that biodiesel is the real deal.
Runs better, perhaps slightly better MPG's and no $$$ for stinking middle eastern oil suppliers!

I suggest you go to biodiesel.org, locate a supplier in your state and try a blend of roughly B20 and go from there.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:32 AM
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Biodiesel.org is where I found the local biodiesel dealer and got the pricing information that I posted. I figured a bunny hugging area like Austin would be ripe for biodiesel. They have to come way down in cost. UT has a program where they say they can produce biodiesel for $.37 a gallon. Double it for distribution costs. Add another $.50 for taxes. It should still be cheaper than petro diesel. Something else is going on here.
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Old 10-13-2004, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBV45
Biodiesel.org is where I found the local biodiesel dealer and got the pricing information that I posted. I figured a bunny hugging area like Austin would be ripe for biodiesel. They have to come way down in cost. UT has a program where they say they can produce biodiesel for $.37 a gallon. Double it for distribution costs. Add another $.50 for taxes. It should still be cheaper than petro diesel. Something else is going on here.
I hear ya SB.
IN fact i'm in an RV park in Austin right now off the 35 and Slaughter LAne.

My buddies who do the home brew Bio can make it for a little under $1 per gallon after collecting the grease from a restaurant or grease renderer.
Most of the cost is the methanol and the lye is cheap.
B100 would need to come way down in cost to have a larger appeal.

.37 a gallon is cheap. Add the .50 for taxes so where does the other $2 and change go?
I would say alot of it is the "boutique mark up" which is the wrong angle to market BD and also the fact that not many refineries make the stuff and maybe the distribution costs are higher.
Still a big gap in producation costs and pump price.

I took a BD cooking class and the EPA apllication and permits (aka,red tape) seemed like a big issue for wide scale sales.

We are a fast food nation so lots of Waste Veggie Oil (grease) is available.
I was told that some states are adopting guidelines to blend low amounts of BIO with #2 pump diesel to increase air quality and increase reserves of #2.
I think they talked about a target of B5-10.

Its a start.
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:21 AM
gibby91477 gibby91477 is offline
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Duplicate post.

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Old 10-13-2004, 11:24 AM
gibby91477 gibby91477 is offline
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I have read that a blend of biodiesel if good for the motor. It is said to help clean injectors and lubricate as well. It appears that if you asked four people their thoughts on biodiesel, you would get fifteen different answers. I run a blend in my 6.0 and no issues. I feel that any fuel we can produce domestically, we should all be willing to pay a premium for it. IMO. I will add that the biodiesel I'm running is soydiesel made from soybeans.

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Old 10-13-2004, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibby91477
I have read that a blend of biodiesel if good for the motor. It is said to help clean injectors and lubricate as well. It appears that if you asked four people their thoughts on biodiesel, you would get fifteen different answers. I run a blend in my 6.0 and no issues. I feel that any fuel we can produce domestically, we should all be willing to pay a premium for it. IMO. I will add that the biodiesel I'm running is soydiesel made from soybeans.
Good to hear.
What blend have you been running;B5-100?
And are you using used or virgin soybean oil?


As far as producing BioDiesel in America and the costs;The huge Irony is that our country is swimming in the core ingredient of Biodiesel,waste vegetable oil or grease) hence we could make the stuff pretty darn cheap.

Connecting the dots i don't see why our goverment couldn't quitely reduce foreign oil purchases and shift more $$$$$ towards subsidize AMERICAN farming BIOFUEL technology (gas and diesel).

ARGH the Irony..........
Hey, did you guys hear Bush refer to domestic Biodisel in the last debate?
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Old 10-13-2004, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibby91477
I have read that a blend of biodiesel if good for the motor. It is said to help clean injectors and lubricate as well. It appears that if you asked four people their thoughts on biodiesel, you would get fifteen different answers. I run a blend in my 6.0 and no issues. I feel that any fuel we can produce domestically, we should all be willing to pay a premium for it. IMO. I will add that the biodiesel I'm running is soydiesel made from soybeans.
That is a heck of a premium. $3.40 a gallon? No, they keep the price up there otherwise there would be a lot of oil companies in a world of hurt. Yes, we can and should use but price gouging through red tape and artificial pricing is criminal.

Hey loonatic, you ever make your own in any quantity? What were the big setbacks on requirements by the red tape?
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Old 10-13-2004, 02:53 PM
LOOnatic LOOnatic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBV45
That is a heck of a premium. $3.40 a gallon? No, they keep the price up there otherwise there would be a lot of oil companies in a world of hurt. Yes, we can and should use but price gouging through red tape and artificial pricing is criminal.

Hey loonatic, you ever make your own in any quantity? What were the big setbacks on requirements by the red tape?


Thats a pretty loaded question but i'll try to hit the key stuff.

1st, i have assisted in the production of up to 300 gallons at one time.
My friend makes batches that large on a home-made still in Utah.
His set up is what we would call ghetto but it's effective and as long as you perform the proper titration testing you will yield consistant results.

2nd, its a big jump to go from lets say selling under the radar(in co-ops or face to face sales) compared to totally legit EPA approved etc.

The angle i'm kicking around is selling it as a eco farm diesel product and by cultivating customers personally,possibly small time fleet account,etc ie, under the radar.

To go big time with EPA approval requires official testing, approved processing and storage fascilty, insurance, etc.
The paperwork and record keeping would be a definite challenge.
Then you have a special local permit to haul around that much fluid.

If your gonna sell alot then you gotta be legit b\c all it takes is one schmoe customer that has a pre-existing mechanical condition and after he runs your biofuel he decides its your products fault and decides to report you sue you whatever.
You don't want EPA and IRS problem.

If you accomplish all this and want an actual pump at a fuel station then be prepared for a fight.
The big fuel vendors don't want to lose a pump so they don't share willingly if you get my drift.

Starting your own gas station would be the best way but that will take lots of start up capital(lots and lots).

So, it can be done, can be marketed and people will buy at the right price.
Just a matter of how to get from point A to point B.
Whewwww....

My ultimate dream would be to somehow harness the existing co-ops into a national coaltion.
Think, price club for fuel ala, Sam's, Costco, etc.

I was pretty amazed to hear that when grease collector's(rendorers) gather the stuff from restaurants, the yellow grease(biodiesel ingredient) is not the desirable part and it comingly thrown into landfill. They want the thick nasty white grease stuffr that ends up in petfood, cosmetics,etc..
We are swimming in the stuff!

For a class near you go to fuelmeister.com and follow the link for biodiesel workshops.
You will learn a whole bunch in 1 day's time.
Oh, its free too!
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Old 10-13-2004, 03:01 PM
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Thanks for the info. I wouldn't mind brewing about 50 gallons at a time or more if there were interested parties in the Austin area that would share in the effort. I actually live on the outskirts of Round Rock.
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Old 10-13-2004, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBV45
Thanks for the info. I wouldn't mind brewing about 50 gallons at a time or more if there were interested parties in the Austin area that would share in the effort. I actually live on the outskirts of Round Rock.
I'll try to help ya out.
On the fuel meister.com website they have a message board where you can post and might find people to help out.
Okay, the VERY best and most clean WVO source is oil used to fry meat free products like from a tortillia producer.
If you can find a way to get that then you will have a very clean and consisitant source of grease.
Find another person to supply lets say 1 barrel of methanol for exchange of 3 barrels of finished Biodisel.
The lye is cheap and the rest is time.
Make your own co-op amongst friends,associates, diesel enthusiats etc.

Yeah its work but so is what i do to pay for $65 fill ups.

The fuelmeister kits are very sanno and user friendly and also very safe considering toxic vapors are involved(methanol) and kinda pricey but having used one its the way to go for what your saying.
They also have an XL size for increased capacity.

All this work is worth it to me ......
Selling the extra to your circle of friends is where its at.

Remember, starting with a very clean grease source saves you alot of time upfront.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:34 PM
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OK, I'm fairly new to the idea of Bio. Is there a problem with extended storage being that it's made of grease and would logically try to separate and turn back into it's original materials? Just curious as I would like to add a supplemental in- bed 100 gallon tank and fill up all at once. Thanks, Mat
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:34 PM
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