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  #16  
Old 10-12-2004, 06:19 PM
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Yeah man, mail them! The lists I had on block ID (not in the book I mentioned) listed some castings as car and truck, and some as truck only.

I assumed that the truck only applied to the heavier duty engines/rods for the big trucks (F600 - up). So, using that, I deduced that the car/truck engines were shared in light duty trucks (100 - 350), therefore would match in paint scheme. I'm having a hard time understanding why Ford would put an EDB block in a car and do it it red, blue and black, then use the same EDB block in a truck and paint it all red.

That's why I'm shooting for good documentation, and original color photos, or survivor thrucks would be nice!
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Old 10-12-2004, 08:25 PM
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Click the image to open in full size. underhood shot of a 27,000 original mile 1960, on ebay about a year back. Judging, by the carb, fuel line and other odds, it has never been touched. -4speed
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  #18  
Old 10-13-2004, 08:32 PM
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I have the book written by James Eickman. But I think it is for cars not for trucks.
The book says, in summary,
1954 239 was ivory color with the valve covers and oil bath air cleaner were red,
1955 through 1958 thunderbird red blocks valve covers black and a argent gray air cleaner. ( my 57 had a yellow engine and the my other had a red engine?)
1959 on was blue or black with red valve covers and air cleaner.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:09 PM
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Shane, I will take a pic for you as soon as I get my camera back from my brother in law.

I'm with Kevin on the yellow for '56. Another user George aka "Earl" also did some extensive research on the '56 colors. here's a thread with some pictures, and a thread describing the color of yellow he used.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/sh...ighlight=earl+
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/sh...ighlight=earl+

4-speed... Lol, I would never think you were starting trouble.

I can't say why, but both my '59 292's had the color scheme I described. Both were built in Mahwah, N.J., Maybe that's a factor?

Shane is absolutely right. It is a confusing mess. A lot of good points have been brought up by everyone though. Just to re-cap..............

Books can and do have errors sometimes.
Car and truck engines of the same year were colored different.
Engines could have been swapped out early on by previous owners (mine included).
Different plants could have used what they had.

Something else to add to the pot.........
It is documented that in mid-production of 1958, Ford switched from the 272 to the 292. During this changeover, they experienced a supply shortage of 292's and some 312's were installed in place of the 292 when the supply was down.

I wonder if this could have caused some of the discrepencies as well?
I'm just guessing here, but when the supply eventually caught up, there could have been an excess of engines painted for '58, which carried over and were installed in '59.
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Old 10-14-2004, 10:30 PM
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Guys and Gals,
That book by Eichman gives the colors for car engines!
Here is what I know by looking at color dealer brochures and by observing the paint on my engine!
1954: red block, argent valve covers, other stuff black
1955, 1956: yellow block, valve covers (am not sure without looking), other stuff black
(the bigger engines were red like in the '54)
the best thing to do is buy color brochures at flea markets or on ebay. Also, check the gallery, some of our members have pictures of their engines in their gallery.

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  #21  
Old 10-20-2004, 09:30 PM
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Well, here's what I'm seeing so far for truck Y-blocks, from 1954 - 1960

1954 = Red block, argent silver covers, black a/c and accessories
1955 = Red block, black valve covers and a/c
1956 = Yellow block, argent covers and black a/c and accessories
1957 = Red block w/black covers and accessories
1958 = Red block w/black covers and accessories

1959 and 1960 V8s are still up in the air. We have:

1. Red block w/black covers and accessories for both years
2. Black block w/red valve covers and accessories as shown in above pic.
3. Black block, blue valve covers, red intake and black accessories (in some cases a red a/c too).

We're getting closer folks to a conclusion. Here are some other facts people have mentioned:

- The oil pan and dipstick tube are same color as the block
- Car and truck blocks were painted in different schemes, even tho' it's the
same engine and year
- There was a documented surplus of '58 engines that were probably installed
in the '59 trucks, carrying over the color scheme
- Some factories probably used what they had in a lot of cases

This last point is interesting to me, because there have been so many variables to this research. Assuming that all the assembly plants did what they were supposed to, I am trying to get to the bottom of what colors were issued as proper proceedure by the corporate office. There's no way to trace every little nuance. I'm just trying to reestablish a correct standard to go by. If you have a survivor truck that has never been tampered with that you want to restore, and the block is yellow, the covers are blue and the intake is red, then restore it that way.
This information I am trying to gather is going to go into the website for the '57 - '60 F-series registry.
Whoever has factory IN COLOR photos, or pics of unrestored engines in color they can send me, please email them to me.

Thank you!
- Some 312's were sold as 292s when supplies were short,
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:00 AM
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It is my understanding that Ford has an office that can help with historical research, factory policies and standards, and even drawings and photos.

The address is: Ford Motor Company, Customer Assistance Center, POB 6248, Dearborn, MI 48126.

I hope this might be of some help to you.
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2004, 10:00 AM
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I'm no expert on the 57-60 models but here is my .02cents! Many years ago (almost 20) I bought a 1958 ford f100 from the orignal owner. The truck had 32,000 orignal miles and was y block powered. I still have this engine in my barn EXACTLY THE WAY I REMOVED IT! It is YELLOW with SILVER valve covers under the years of crud! I have not checked the block #'s but I do know the heads are the ECZ-G castings, (I checked that last year when I was looking for a set of G heads but I just couldnt bring myself to tearing apart the virgin yblock)
Now according to Motorbooks International Ford Pickup Red Book page 54 it states "In the engine compartment, the 223 was standard, and the 181hp 272ci y-block was optional. By january 1958, the 272ci was replaced with a larger version displacing 292ci and putting out 186hp.
Also as I was reading I found some info to be not true,the page before states that the engine code is j-223ci 139hp and k-272ci 171hp but above I quoted it as saying 181hp.

I still think it depends on where the truck was being assembled and what the supplies were at the time of assembly.

Sixoh, sorry to have put a STICK IN YOUR SPOKES on this one!

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  #24  
Old 10-21-2004, 10:43 AM
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I always thought the 57's and the 272 from 58 were yellow. I believe when they made the switch to the 292 in 58 then they went red.

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  #25  
Old 12-02-2004, 10:35 PM
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Y Block colors

To add a little to the confusion, I have a 55 F350 with the 239 power king, and I have come across a few other 239 truck engines where the only thing yellow is the intake manifold. All these engines are dearborn built engines with the numbers next to the distributor. The rest of the block was goldish with the silver valve covers, I take that back they could be black or red, I will have to check tomorrow, but anything I found with a yellow intake was always 239.
Next I have a 61 or 2 292 C1TE heavy duty truck engine from a bus or dump truck and that block is completely gold, valve covers and all.
I have 2 1955 ford cars and they have the red block with black valve covers and silver air cleaner.
I had a 62 Galaxie with the 292 and it was all red including valve covers and air cleaner, I think most after 60 were all red but in the 50's Ford may have been like mercury outboards, they just threw together several combinations of colors on motors but there is no documentation saying there was a specific color combination, so people can argue about who is right and who is wrong but all may have come from the factory as they are found.
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Old 12-03-2004, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y block Bill
To add a little to the confusion, I have a 55 F350 with the 239 power king, and I have come across a few other 239 truck engines where the only thing yellow is the intake manifold. All these engines are dearborn built engines with the numbers next to the distributor. The rest of the block was goldish with the silver valve covers, I take that back they could be black or red, I will have to check tomorrow, but anything I found with a yellow intake was always 239.
Next I have a 61 or 2 292 C1TE heavy duty truck engine from a bus or dump truck and that block is completely gold, valve covers and all.
I have 2 1955 ford cars and they have the red block with black valve covers and silver air cleaner.
I had a 62 Galaxie with the 292 and it was all red including valve covers and air cleaner, I think most after 60 were all red but in the 50's Ford may have been like mercury outboards, they just threw together several combinations of colors on motors but there is no documentation saying there was a specific color combination, so people can argue about who is right and who is wrong but all may have come from the factory as they are found.
Hi and Happpy Thanmsgiciving....Im going to give it my best shot, Lets startOn the 62 292, it would all be red , covers and block and pan.

But your 239 had a red intake.......Janet

On your 239 Y it would be all red, with the exception of the 650 up series

The powermaster would be yellow with silver covers

55 y block would be red block and black covers




The Cite Y block has the steel crankshaft, so your guess is probably correct
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:44 AM
Y block Bill Y block Bill is offline
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I have seen numerous trucks with the 239 and the intake was always yellow and as I sail earlier they were all dearborn castings.

I will go look at the one I have out back and update you later.

Bill
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  #28  
Old 12-03-2004, 06:17 PM
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This is great. This kind of back and forth will get to the bottom of it. I have decided that Ford on a corporate level had a color code policy for the engines. But it also seems that during any shortages, either on colors or on a particular bin being out of a manifold at this time, or valve covers at that time when a line worker needed a pair, possibly another bin was grabbed from. Or possibly another dept. brought over engine parts to cover a shortage.

Any corporation is going to have some structure in print, but I'm sure the human factor played into what actually wound up in a number of cars....especially the truck line. Trucks weren't the status symbol that they are these days. They were essentially tools or appliances. Owners didn't care how they were abused, and factory workers didn't have a high priority on how they went together.

That sounds feasible. Hopefully, I can compile all of this info to uncover a written corporate proceedure on this.

Some people say it's a waste of time, but that's restoration!
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:17 PM
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Thumbs up Exactly What I Said Earlier This Year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixoh
This is great. This kind of back and forth will get to the bottom of it. I have decided that Ford on a corporate level had a color code policy for the engines. But it also seems that during any shortages, either on colors or on a particular bin being out of a manifold at this time, or valve covers at that time when a line worker needed a pair, possibly another bin was grabbed from. Or possibly another dept. brought over engine parts to cover a shortage.

Any corporation is going to have some structure in print, but I'm sure the human factor played into what actually wound up in a number of cars....especially the truck line. Trucks weren't the status symbol that they are these days. They were essentially tools or appliances. Owners didn't care how they were abused, and factory workers didn't have a high priority on how they went together.

That sounds feasible. Hopefully, I can compile all of this info to uncover a written corporate proceedure on this.

Some people say it's a waste of time, but that's restoration!

Sixoh, you're right!!! I have tried in the past in this forum to tell people this same thing time and time again, and they discredit me....One isssue was a user in here that has a 58 ford pickup, he swears his block is yellow, but my Stepfathers Father in Gustine Texas bought a brand new 58 stepside pickup, and it for a fact had a red block and black valve covers. and so did George Stevenson of Rising Star Texas when i was a little girl in the mid 60's, his 292 was also red for a fact. And one thing myself and 3 others prooved without a shadow of a doubt to a guy that said a manual called for a yellow block on the 54 ford pickup with a 239, we kept digging and prooved without any doubt period!!! , that the 239 in the 54 ford pickup was all RED, that it was the supposed 55-57 that were yellow....Ford is just like any other Depot, one week this runs out, so they call Joe in Muscogee somewheresville, and say Joe Fast i need Valve covers!!! Here's another such proof!!.. in mid 1956 when Crown Victoria was the hall of fame, a guy took the regular to be 57 sedan, and said hummmm, i'll chrome this baby out, and make a metal retractable top, and really burn or hurt chevies plans this coming year, the plants already had all the Yblocks ready for the regular sedan they were to put out at the dealerships, so he was like uh oh, what do i do for engines for theses cars...Well he found a way, he used the plant that was making all the Tbird engines for 57, and simply had them make more Yblocks with the Tbird design valve covers, so inotherwords all 1957 sedan retractable tops for a fact have a Yblock with the snazzy Tbird in cursive with the beautiful V, even though it is not a Tbird. Also a lot of people got cheated big time in 1960, as many 1960 galaxies came out with the good good 352 engine, while others had just a 292, and option wasn't the reason either, it's only that Ford had a bit more money from sales and had time to sit and make the 352 FE, because some very plain jane 1960 galaxies will have a 352, supply was the reason. Ford did the same thing on ;ate model Ford Explores, they had a bunch of the old 302's left over from the 1970's so they used them in the 40 thousand dollar explorer as late as 1998, so what it boils down to is this, by average something should be by book, but lots of times things will not be by the book!! Your best source is to talk to people that drove this stuff and lived back then, this is how you will learn....Janet

PS. One other thing i will say, and most everyone will say i am wrong, there was never a 64 and a half mustang (Pure Bogus), the first was built in 64 as the 65, only some came out a bit earlier in some states because they worked faster, maybe by a 2 month margin though. It's people like me that know this stuff because i lived back then!!!
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Last edited by Janet40; 12-03-2004 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 12-18-2004, 12:26 PM
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One must always keep in mind that these engines could have been rebuilt and resprayed, unless they know for a fact that the original color scheme has not been disturbed.

Although some of you have said that the colors for '59 were the same as '58, My '59 with 9200 original miles has a 292 with black block/ intake and red valve covers/ air cleaner that I am positive is original. I think the oil pan is silver, but I'll have to check again to be sure

Also, I have a 292 from a '61 galaxie with black block, red air cleaner, silver oil pan, and blue valve covers. This engine was rebuilt at some piont, so this combo could be thrown together.

Just some food for thought.
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Old 12-18-2004, 12:26 PM
 
 
 
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