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  #1  
Old 08-31-2004, 05:54 PM
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DieselDonor7.3 DieselDonor7.3 is offline
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Which V-8 diesel is best? Duramax/PSD comparison

We've picked apart the PSD vs. Cummins which was pretty much pointless because neither side is budging on their viewpoint and it is not a good comparison because for one it is a V-8 vs. I-6. The V-8 is obviously going to prevail in most magazine simulated situations with professional drivers. For two they are geared radically different meant to excel in different categories.

The Duramax and the 6.0 PSD are a much better comparison for what the majority of the American public desires in a light duty diesel truck. The Duramax cannot be ruled out as it is a very well designed engine in a work diesel application. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ANY SLIGHTS ON ENGINE ORIGIN it is plain immature. This is a technical comparison try to keep it on a sophisticated level. None of this "it's not made in America therefore Powerstroke is better" crap. I don't see any proof that American made engines are better than anyone elses. It is a close-minded theory; an invalid argument. People who do judge this engine and dismiss it because of its design heritage do so at the peril of possibly missing out on an engine with very real economic benefits for those who use heavy duty trucks at work every day. Feel free to throw any 7.3 PSD discussion to the table though.

Last edited by DieselDonor7.3; 08-31-2004 at 06:10 PM.
  #2  
Old 08-31-2004, 07:29 PM
EKUgrad EKUgrad is offline
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I have not had the opportunity to work either of the two engines very hard. It seems that there are good and bad points to both of them. The newer LLY's are having cooling issues, their fan kicks on and sucks the power out of them. The LB7's had injector issues (which is being covered by an extended-to-200,000 mile warranty). People love their Allison transmissions, even if power is cut in OD and first. The 6.0 has had some growing pains but those who have not experienced these absolutely swear by their trucks. Who knows, I think that we all win with this current lineup of trucks.

The aluminum heads have not been the problem that people thought that they would. They probably do offer a slight weight advantage, but I doubt if it really makes that much of a difference at the end of the day.
  #3  
Old 08-31-2004, 07:34 PM
FordLariat FordLariat is offline
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That said, people who dismiss the fact that this engine is foreign are going to end up ultimately collapsing the country's economy and have all of our grandchildren working for Japanese companies, and USA will no longer be a world super-power because people wanted to stay open-minded and sell ourselves out in every major market that we have. Sorry that you think it's immature, but it's a fact.
That being said, here's the technical side. Duramax has aluminum heads, and even though I haven't heard anything about this so far, I am sure that it doesn't help the long-term durability of this engine. Time will tell. Here's again, though, the PSD equipped truck tows/hauls more than the Duramax equipped truck. As far as I have read, they get about the same fuel mileage, and like the Dodge, obviously the Chevy can't use it's power as efficiently to tow as much or more than an underpowered truck (F-250 or F-350). I don't think Chevy is seriosuly trying to even build HD trucks, or they wouldn't be using IFS. They are fine for what they are, yeah, comfortable trucks that can tow more than Chevy's half ton, but at some point you have to sacrafice comfort for durability and strength, and I don't think Chevy is willing to do that. I do think that the Duramax is the second best diesel on the market right behind the PSD, as I think it's technology is leaps and bounds ahead of the Cummins.
  #4  
Old 08-31-2004, 07:43 PM
BVister BVister is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordLariat
That said, people who dismiss the fact that this engine is foreign are going to end up ultimately collapsing the country's economy and have all of our grandchildren working for Japanese companies, and USA will no longer be a world super-power because people wanted to stay open-minded and sell ourselves out in every major market that we have. Sorry that you think it's immature, but it's a fact.
Having a degree in Economics, and dealing with economics every day, both Macro and Micro, I can prove to you that that is absolutley untrue.

But, since you seen to know that what you say is fact , I'd like to see you defend your statement and show me why a global trade policy and global economics will ruin Americas economy. Not with opinion or hearsay, but statistics and facts.
  #5  
Old 08-31-2004, 08:51 PM
150ford 150ford is offline
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Either diesel will get the job done Im sure. Its comes down to the rest of the truck. Ford still makes a work truck. The superduty. A work truck made to work. I believe GM makes a truck for the typical urban dweller. As lariat said IFS has no place on a HD truck. I believe the superduty will take more abuse than the GM truck. I love the higher stance of the superduty. Its pure definition of a truck. I believe the quality of Ford trucks is way better than GM nowdays. GMs cheapened there trucks up too much. Nothing holds up in them anymore.
  #6  
Old 08-31-2004, 09:08 PM
southernfordman southernfordman is offline
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when i bought my new psd i test drove the durmax first and i thought it had alot of power but there were no room in the back seat in the crew cab and the front seats are closer together than the f-250 but any way when i test drove the 6.0 psd it had way more power and much bigger inside i was looking at a gmc 2500 4x4 duramax same options as the f-250 i was looking at and the gmc was msrp at 49,000 and the super duty was 44,000, and the fords look like they can take more abuse and they look much better
  #7  
Old 08-31-2004, 09:18 PM
Marine Ironman Marine Ironman is offline
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Need the Power/Torque Curve

DieselBoner,

I need the Power/Torque curve for the stock Duramax, or at least the torque values for about every 500 rpm, and the drop off point. I have the Allison gear numbers. I will do the same engineering analysis I did in PSD vs. Cummins, and we will see who wins. But I need the curve, or estimated curve.

Okay, ladies. Continue your yackity yacking.

And for Boner ... it's a rice burner, but worth the look.
  #8  
Old 08-31-2004, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVister
Having a degree in Economics, and dealing with economics every day, both Macro and Micro, I can prove to you that that is absolutley untrue.

But, since you seen to know that what you say is fact , I'd like to see you defend your statement and show me why a global trade policy and global economics will ruin Americas economy. Not with opinion or hearsay, but statistics and facts.
After making a harsh response like that I think you need to back it up. I think the point he was trying to make is that a lot of "foreign" companies actually have more jobs in the US than comperable "domestic" companies.
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  #9  
Old 08-31-2004, 11:26 PM
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DieselDonor7.3 DieselDonor7.3 is offline
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FordLariat we've already went over this in another thread... even though Isuzu is Japanese originated GMC owns them now or at least is the majority stockholder, therefore GMC is where the money is piling up when you purchase a Duramax. They moved the Isuzu Duramax plant to Ohio where they build and assemble them now and I doubt you are going to find a high percentage of Japanese workers there. If there does happen to be a few Japanese people they are AMERICAN people of Japanese heritage, so quit with the racism. Make your own thread if you need to spew or at least take it elsewhere.

Like I said I'm not going to drink American beer that I think tastes crappy for the rest of my life simply to please the American economists. PSD is the sales leader by far so I woudn't worry too much if the Duramax sells a couple hundred thousand. It is a GLOBAL economy now... everyone is in bed with everybody else. Ford owns 1/3 of Mazda now so go to a Focus forum and complain about this The sporty SVT hatchbacks are dropped for '05, but there's a new ST sedan with a 150-horsepower 2.3-liter 4-cyl. engine borrowed from Mazda, Ford's Japanese affiliate...... The engine in other models depends on where you live. For California, New York State, Massachusetts, Maine and Vermont it's a Mazda-sourced 2.0-liter "Duratec 20E"
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/e...eature22#focus

I'm sure more of these Mazda powered focus's are going to be sold than the Duramax powered Chevy, and Ford isn't even the majority stockholder. Aww there goes hard earned American money over to foreign lands because the husband chose an "American" car for his wife to get the kids to soccer practice and pick up groceries.

Marine Tinman- I'm on it. I will work on finding the Duramax hp and torque curves.

Last edited by DieselDonor7.3; 09-01-2004 at 12:00 AM.
  #10  
Old 09-01-2004, 01:15 AM
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DieselDonor7.3 DieselDonor7.3 is offline
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Well I can't find any real dyno charts for the Duramax so far... but this one at hypertech shows what they measured on their chassis dyno good for 2001-2004 6.6L turbo diesel:
http://www.hypertech-inc.com/images/...uramax0104.jpg

And you can see if that coincides with the one at edge products... it won't come up on my computer for some reason so I can't check:
http://www.edgeproducts.com/chevy_duramax.html
  #11  
Old 09-01-2004, 01:17 AM
FordLariat FordLariat is offline
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I'm not being racist, so don't accuse me of it. I don't understand how you can say that American companies outsourcing to overseas operations is not going to have any effect on America. That's ludicrous and very naive to believe that it would be beneficial to outsource, but like was said, that's another thread, but you will NOT accuse me of being anything! Bottom line is, no matter what you decide about the Duramax in this thread, the second half of my first post holds true. Trucks equipped with it aren't anywhere near as capable as trucks equipped with the PSD. Now you can attack me, call me racist, do anything you want to take the focus off of the fact that the Ford is a superior truck, PSD and all, but when the smoke clears, the Duramax, no matter how good you end up getting people to say it is, comes in a substandard truck. Now, dispute that.

Last edited by FordLariat; 09-01-2004 at 01:20 AM.
  #12  
Old 09-01-2004, 03:31 AM
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Okay good we got that out of the way. No disrespect meant FordLariat, all I am saying is everybody is doing it now so don't single out the Duramax. There is no good worrying, protesting, or picketing about American based vehicles using foreign sourced engines now. It is already happening. From what I gathered from people's comments on the PSD vs. Cummins thread the Duramax is considered the PSD's main competition even though the PSD still outperforms it in speed, towing, and acceleration. The Duramax is closer than the Cummins so I figured this would be a more logical comparison. Lets refrain from the Duramax will cause America's demise discussion; it is very unrealistic and we already know you don't approve.

Last edited by DieselDonor7.3; 09-01-2004 at 03:48 AM.
  #13  
Old 09-01-2004, 04:17 AM
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adrian.erks.harris adrianerksharris
Irrespective of racism,
Isuzu have been manufacturing diesel engines for years, and in Australia, where they are the sales leader in the small truck segment, they have the best reliability reputation out of any the small truck manufacturers (this includes the likes of Ford and Toyota), so while I am a bit hesitant about aluminium heads on a Diesel, but IMO if Isuzu have done it, I am sure they have done it right.
Having said that, from real world tests the Duramax still gets beaten by the PSD. So like the Dodge, the duramax has the raw numbers, but the PSD has a far more linear power delivery making more power usable more of the time.
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  #14  
Old 09-01-2004, 04:36 AM
Logical Heritic Logical Heritic is offline
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AFAIK. Isuzu is the only company that sells more diesels than cummins.

I dont like the duramax because of its bore and stroke. Itll have excellent transient response time and haul butt empty. But why buy a diesel to drive it empty. I would take a na 6.9 over a duramax but thats just personal taste. Im sure the duramax is an excellent engine.

That said. An old friend of my dad has one and gets over 20 mpg. Not bad for a 6500lb pickup. Tows better than anything hes ever owned before. But then again. He has never driven a 6.0.
  #15  
Old 09-01-2004, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EKUgrad
Who knows, I think that we all win with this current lineup of trucks.
Exactly right. I've owned both an 01 dmax/ally and 03 6.0PSD. Given all the tests done since the PSD came out, I'd guess the PSD, given they're both broken in motors, would beat the dmax in a timed race. But both pulled great and both were good trucks. The allison was busier on rolling hills than the TS was but that may have been due to the increased torque. It's not like I noticed that one did a remarkably better job anywhere than the other, except that the dmax was so quiet with the PI. So was my PSD when I got it but that was stolen by a re-flash.

Personally, I would not let the performance difference be the deciding factor. They're both powerful and fast, in my experience. My motor was a POS and DSB forced ford to buy it back but, other than the motor, I found both trucks overall quality and durability to be about equal. Fit and finish is better on the GM, though.
Old 09-01-2004, 08:14 AM
 
 
 
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