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  #1  
Old 08-27-2004, 12:04 PM
rbradd rbradd is offline
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Calif emissions engine swap? long post

I searched the archives and could not find what I was looking for so I thought I would just post. if I missed this in the archives I appologise

I have a 79 f100 2wd with a c6 transmision and a 302 located in California.

The 302 is tired and leaks oil. I would like to find a mid to late 80's 351w to replace it with. My questions are:

What will I have to change in the electronics?
Will the motor mounts or towers need to be changed?
Will the exhaust bolt up?

Finally, does anyone know how this will effect smog and registration in California?

Thanks, I appreciate all I have learned here, looking forward to any help anyone can offer.
Rick

I originally posted this in the engine swap forum but did not learn much, I was hoping maybe some of you local California residents would know.

I am looking at buying a mid 80's 351w on ebay, but I am concerned about it passing smog because my f100 was not offered with a 351w. my 302 is starting to knock a little.

here is what I gleaned from the Bureau of Automotive repairs site, but I still don't know what any of it means. Can I change it becuase its the same family? Or do I have to add a second cat etc?

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/stdPAge....s-Jan_1994.htm

Any help or clarifiacation would be great.

Thanks in advance

Rick
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2004, 01:10 PM
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this is just off the top of my head, but the 302 and 351 blocks look so similar that unless the shop takes the number off of the engine itself to verify what it is, you should be fine. i would keep it carburated(sp), using the same setup that you have now, after it was rebuilt, that way the electrical system doesnt need to be changed. the motor mount towers and exhaust should be fine. keep it registered as a 302 and tune it up, and you should be able to pass the sniffer
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2004, 09:39 AM
watersurgeon watersurgeon is offline
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<<Finally, does anyone know how this will effect smog and registration in California?>>

As a hot rod/kit car builder I can give you a brief heads up on this.

Regardless of the engine you put in it will have to pass the emmission standards for the vehicle registration year.

If you put an older motor in a newer car and you want it to pass your going to need to have a DMV referee station reclassify the vehicle.

There going to do that by the engine manufactured year and your going to have to prove the engine year. Unfortuantely for older Ford motors there is no serial number on the engines so they can't be matched up against any books. The ones that did have serial numbers, had a tag attached the carburator mount, which DMV won't except because its not a permanent stamp.

If you buy the engine block, from a third party it has to be a licensed repair facility, engine rebuilder, salvage yard etc... and the paper work needs to say the year of the engine.

My first roadster I built in 1980 used a Ford 2800 V6 out of a Mustang II. As the smog laws changed in California throughout the 80's I got shafted on registration due to the fact that they were Forcing me to meet 1980 smog requirements. I could not get them to change the engine year because of the serial number. I finally got the year changed in 1988 when I found a Ford Capri engine book that explained the spark plugs went from the skinny size to the standard size in 1974 on the 2800 V6. The Pinto, Mustang and Capri all used the same V6. That was my saving grace on getting the car reclassified.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:28 PM
rbradd rbradd is offline
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Hey Kermit, Watersurgeon,


Thanks for the feedback.

Watersurgeon I ad a question about your response. I am a little confused, I have a 79 ford 302 truck that I can get a 87 351 motor for.

So, do I have to meet smog emission standards for the registration year, 2004? Or for the year of my truck, 1979? Or, so I have to bring the truck up to 87 standards to match the engine year?

I am changing years and engine size, so I am kind of concerned I will end up with a motor I can't use.

Thanks again, I appreciate your help.
Rick
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Old 08-30-2004, 02:17 PM
watersurgeon watersurgeon is offline
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They go by the year the car was registered. If you put a newer motor in an older car it just needs to meet the older emmission standards, including all the emmission equipment.

The change comes when you put an older motor in a newer car and you basically won't pass the emmission requirements.

There are a lot of rules to doing the swap and getting it approved.

You can't go out and buy a new car and turn around and rip the engine out and drop a pre emmission 454 or 500 in it.

If the emmission check calls for fuel injection and your swap has a carb, your going to have to have it refereed.

Check with the states bureau of Automotive Repair, they have a whole section on this, I believe.
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2004, 09:52 AM
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This gets so complicated today that your best bet is to find a referee smog station and ask them in person about your plans. My gut feeling is that if you drop in a carbed 351W with all of the stock equipment there will be no issue because it will look original to anyone who is not an absolute expert on Ford trivia. Since you are going to a later year engine it will run cleaner than '79 standards anyway. I wouldnt tell anyone.

If you are going EFI, then you have a big job on your hands converting everything and you will probably have to do the referee station thing.

Jim
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:06 AM
watersurgeon watersurgeon is offline
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<<best bet is to find a referee smog station>>

These are State Run garages and generally they won't talk to people off the street. Liability issues with telling somone something that may come back and haunt the state.

Although it may be worth a try I would not expect a lot of cooperation from them.
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  #8  
Old 09-02-2004, 01:01 PM
rbradd rbradd is offline
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Thanks for all of your replies.

I was so worried about licensing that I decided to wait on the motor, it went for a lot more on ebay than I wanted to pay anyway, when you add in shipping and a few upgrades I wanted to do. I am going to keep looking into it, but I feel like your right about the engine change being cool if its a newer motor.

I'll post again when I get closer to deciding what to do, Thanks again all.
Rick
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Old 09-11-2004, 04:27 PM
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It seems to me (I live in northern CA, and am familiar with the smog requirements) that as long as you have a motor that looks like it belongs in your truck, you can take it into any smog station and they'll just test it and, as long as it's running right, pass it. They probably won't even notice that you swapped in a 351.

Of course, if you *tell* them that it's a swap, then you're going to have to go through the referee station crap, and it will be a lot of aggravation.

My F-150 has a straight six. If I were to swap in a 400 or a 460, I think they might notice. I could never swap in a 400, because they stopped making them in '82 or '83. My truck is an '89.
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  #10  
Old 11-18-2004, 01:33 AM
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Just had my 1984 chev pu smogged, all they ask was how many cyclinders it had,not how big it was. Its a pain in the rear when it doesn't pass.
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  #11  
Old 11-18-2004, 01:08 PM
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The 87 351W was carbed anyways...
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Old 11-27-2004, 10:57 PM
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Dont admit to changing the engine. If you do, you will likely have to go to a "referee station" to have it inspected. Whichever is the newest (vehicle or engine), that is what your smog inspection will be based upon. Example.....my friend dropped a 350 V8 (1997) in his 87 jag. The block number was for a 97 corvette, so, all engine/drivetrain components had to be per 1997 smog cert specs. Especially check the engine/trans combo's for that year......because if the factory did not offer the trans you have with that engine, guress what, the smog guy can make you remove the trans.
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Old 11-27-2004, 10:57 PM
 
 
 
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