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Old 08-18-2004, 10:42 AM
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Wards automotive 'judgement'

Has anyone read the "top 10 engines" on Wards? No Ford made it. On their comments page, they hailed the Hemi and the Cummins as the best in pickups. I tried to paste the link here but it didn't come out as a link. If you are interested, google for 'wards top 10 engines'.
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Last edited by hang10; 08-18-2004 at 10:47 AM. Reason: won't link.
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Old 08-18-2004, 12:30 PM
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Coming from the diesel side it makes sense. The Duramax and PSD 6.0 haven't been out very long.
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Old 08-18-2004, 01:07 PM
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just check out their previous editions. i do believe that the dmax and the 6.0 each made it during the first full year out. according to the magazine guys, the latest is always the greatest.... if you buy that. i am not sure, maybe someone else knows and can chime in. i believe that for some of these 10 best things that the engine or whatever has to be new or at least significantly changes. i don't know if this applies to Ward's or not.
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Old 08-18-2004, 04:26 PM
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I can see why the cummins was in there, but not the Hemi, at least for a truck. It might deserve to be in there for a car engine, but it's too much of a high revver to be considered for best truck engine.
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Old 08-18-2004, 05:17 PM
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This is a pasted copy of their write up:


The fullsize-pickup portion of this year’s Best Engines competition promised to be tough, but in the end it was no contest.


The fullsize-pickup portion of this year’s Best Engines competition promised to be tough, but in the end it was no contest.

We were fortunate to have the new Ford F-150, Nissan Titan and Dodge Ram pickups for testing at the same time. Some judges took keys to two or three at a time to test-drive them back-to-back.

When the scoring was complete, no debate was necessary: The Ram’s 5.7L Hemi Magnum OHV V-8 was the clear favorite.

The F-150 is all-new for ’04, and its 3-valve 5.4L SOHC Triton V-8 is as quiet as a luxury car – no foolin’. The powertrain gurus at Ford Motor Co. tell us refinement is what their truck customers want.


Judge Tom Murphy
Problem is, we think it’s too refined. “Too much unrequited accelerator pedal travel,” I scribbled on my F-150 score sheet. “Not as responsive as Hemi.” Another judge was more blunt: “This engine was dogged when pushed,” he wrote.

Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. has nothing to be ashamed of with its 5.6L DOHC V-8 – its first-ever V-8 for a fullsize pickup. “Like it better than Ford Triton,” wrote one judge. “More powerful than F-150 off the line!” wrote another. But judges also noted it wasn’t as refined as the F-150 V-8.

The Hemi earned a Best Engines award in 2003 in its first model year. That it stared down two worthy competitors this year is evidence the Chrysler Group is serious about its pickup truck powerplants.

Judges gush about the Hemi. “Love the vocals,” wrote one. “Torque is exceptional, especially at low end,” wrote another.

In the medium-duty diesel portion of our competition, the Ram earned another Best Engines award – with nary a word of debate.

Its 5.9L I-6 Cummins turbodiesel now is the benchmark in the segment, offering superb refinement, an outstanding automatic transmission and enough power to make a Teamster giddy.

General Motors Corp.’s Duramax turbodiesel was the first to win a Best Engines award in this segment a few years back, followed last year by Ford’s Power Stroke. This year, the Cummins-powered Ram Heavy Duty slays all comers – until a more worthy challenger comes along.

The only other diesel we tested this year was Volkswagen AG’s 1.9L I-4 TDI in the Jetta. It was great on the highway but sounded too much like a clattery old diesel at idle, unlike the Cummins.
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Old 08-18-2004, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG4.0
I can see why the cummins was in there, but not the Hemi, at least for a truck. It might deserve to be in there for a car engine, but it's too much of a high revver to be considered for best truck engine.
Good point, but look at the competition 5.4 L Triton and i dont care what scrap metal GM uses. Of course they are gonna choose thr HEMI. Point being out of truck engines HEMI is the only logical choice.
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAX-HD
Coming from the diesel side it makes sense. The Duramax and PSD 6.0 haven't been out very long.
Not really making sense to me, they have both been out longer than the Cummins 600.
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hang10
...an outstanding automatic transmission and enough power to make a Teamster giddy.
Outstanding automatic transmission? Where did they get that from? Do they really think it's better than the Torqueshift?
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordLariat
Not really making sense to me, they have both been out longer than the Cummins 600.
Yeah, but unlike the 6.0 PSD and Duramax, the Cummins 600 is an upgrade of an existing engine, not an entirely new design like the others.

Quote:
I can see why the cummins was in there, but not the Hemi, at least for a truck. It might deserve to be in there for a car engine, but it's too much of a high revver to be considered for best truck engine.
My buddy's Ram with a Hemi is just fine for a truck. It makes more power than my 04 F-150 does, and it out pulls it too. I'm not saying I don't like my F-150, but there is no denying the Hemi is a better, more powerful motor than the 3V 5.4. Even if it's peak torque is higher, it still makes just as much or more low end torque than the 5.4.
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Old 08-18-2004, 10:00 PM
FordLariat FordLariat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVister
Yeah, but unlike the 6.0 PSD and Duramax, the Cummins 600 is an upgrade of an existing engine, not an entirely new design like the others.


My buddy's Ram with a Hemi is just fine for a truck. It makes more power than my 04 F-150 does, and it out pulls it too. I'm not saying I don't like my F-150, but there is no denying the Hemi is a better, more powerful motor than the 3V 5.4. Even if it's peak torque is higher, it still makes just as much or more low end torque than the 5.4.
Ok, the block is the same. Other than that, nothing else is anywhere close to the same Cummins that was in earlier Dodge trucks. Also, I'm going to have to raise the BS flag on the Hemi being a better motor. Even if it is, you'd never know it, unless you put one in a Ford, because the Ford gets as much or more power to the rear wheels, and has higher tow ratings, so the 5.4, even though it isn't rated as much as the Hemi, is still in the class-leading truck, so it's doing exactly what it was designed to do: Be a reliable and efficient motor that makes the new F-150 superior to it's competitors. Anyone want to explain how that isn't the case? The 5.4 does it's job fine.
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Old 08-18-2004, 10:21 PM
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Where do you get that the F-150 gets more power to the wheels? All the dyno's I've seen show about equal parasitic loss for the Dodge and Ford, and given that, the Dodge with the Hemi always has more RWHP than the Ford with the 5.4. My friends truck and mine are pretty equally equipped, and his truck flat outruns mine, both loaded and empty, even on the low end.

Either way, I'm not saying the 5.4 isn't a suitable motor. I've never ran out of power with my truck. I'm just saying that the Hemi is more powerful, and to be honest, so far his truck has proven every bit as reliable as mine. Would I trade my truck for a Ram? Probably not, I like the looks of the F-150 far better. However, I'm not affraid to admit the Dodge is a great truck too.
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Old 08-18-2004, 10:57 PM
FordLariat FordLariat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVister
Where do you get that the F-150 gets more power to the wheels? All the dyno's I've seen show about equal parasitic loss for the Dodge and Ford, and given that, the Dodge with the Hemi always has more RWHP than the Ford with the 5.4. My friends truck and mine are pretty equally equipped, and his truck flat outruns mine, both loaded and empty, even on the low end.

Either way, I'm not saying the 5.4 isn't a suitable motor. I've never ran out of power with my truck. I'm just saying that the Hemi is more powerful, and to be honest, so far his truck has proven every bit as reliable as mine. Would I trade my truck for a Ram? Probably not, I like the looks of the F-150 far better. However, I'm not affraid to admit the Dodge is a great truck too.
It may be a great truck, but nbot as great as the F-150. If they had the same amoutn of power to the wheels, then the Ram would be capable of towing as much as the F-150.
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:01 PM
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There is more to towing than power alone. The fact remains that dyno test after dyno test prove the Dodge puts more power to the ground.

If the Ford did in fact out more power down, then why does the Ram always out run my F-150?
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Old 08-18-2004, 11:42 PM
FordLariat FordLariat is offline
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The truck is designed to last longer in the application that it is in. How does a vehicle with less overall pulling power pull more than a vehicle with more pulling power?
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Old 08-19-2004, 12:03 AM
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The factory tow rating is what the factory says the vehicle can safely tow. It is not the absolute highest amount of weight the vehicle is able to move. If you want to know that, go to a truck/tractor pull. Many variables and factors go into determining the tow rating, not power alone, as evidenced by the fact that the Dodges put more power to the tires. Do you not believe dyno graphs?


The higher tow rating given to the F-150 is also a bit deceiving because the 9000+ rating only comes on the F-150 HD which is more of a 3/4 ton truck. Dodge doesn't offer a similar Ram 1500, so to make it fair you shouldn't put the F-150 HD against the Ram 1500.

Actually, My F-150 Super Cab 4x4 with the 3.73 gears is rated to tow 7800 lbs. According to the Dodge website, his Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 with 3.92 gears is rated to tow 8000 lbs. Looks like his is rated to tow more overall.
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Old 08-19-2004, 12:03 AM
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