I have a 04 F250 5.4, 3.73
The rated weight for a tow vehicle is 7,500lb
The GCWR is 13,500. I am now towing a 26' Rockwood
weighing in about 5,600lb. Tows like a dream, although
OD is out in most cases. Can pass cars with no problem.
My question is this.
Most 5th wheels rate the hitch as about 20%-25%
so if I get a 5th wheel that weighs 9,000lbs loaded, the
the hitch will have between 1,800 and 2,250 lbs
Does this mean that my tow vehicle weight is reduced by 1,800-2,250 lbs and now is between 7,200 and 6,750.
If so then I have to make sure that the whole rig is less than 13,500.
Or do I have to find a 5th wheel that is less than 7,500 total.

Kunder54

 

Kunder...you speak of many issues here. If you are looking at a 5th wheel there are several issues to consider. Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (truck GVWR on white sticker on drivers door jam) and trailer GVWR together as per what you say should not be greater than 13,500. You also need to consider your trucks payload capacity. With a 5th wheel, once you roll up the front landing gear, the weight from the trailer becomes payload in your truck. You would be VERY WISE to fill your truck up with fuel and with you in the cab, drive across a commercial weigh scale. This will give you TRUE GVW. Then add weight of any passengers as well as a 5th wheel hitch if not already installed. Now....add all this weight up and subtract it from your vehicles GVWR. This is the remaining PAYLOAD you have left which translates to how much kingpin weight you can carry (legally). Tow ratings are different for tag along trailers as opposed to payload for 5th wheels. BE CAREFULL!!!!! Read my post....Ford Superduty payloads aint what they appear for what Ive struggled through and see if anything helps answer your question there. Bottom line is you need to find your payload capacity AND stay within the CGVWR. Good Luck!!!!

 

That's what I wanted to know, that the hitch weight becomes part of my payload and not trailer weight.
We are going on our next trip in a few weeks and am
stopping at a Cat Certified Scale station. I will weigh
the total and the just weight the truck with full fuel, wife, dog. Can figure it out from there. The funny thing is,
the park where we are going has over 700 sites, lots with 5th wheels and alot of them being pulled by F250's just like mine. I may just stay with my 26'er since it tows so good and seems to be no strain on the truck. I would rather be a little cramped and have the truck last then broke down on the road.
Thanks for the response.

Kunder

 

i was wondering that also. if you look at the towing guide for the v10 or diesel they have heaver weights for fifth wheels pulling. look in the ford guide. it does look like you can pull more if you get the fifth wheel instead of the travel trailer. I hope so because i have the same problem. i just ordered the fifth wheel and it weighs about 8000+Lbs. and i have the same truck you have. 7000+ lbs on my SD 4x4. good luck.

 

Viken......like I said before. Check the GVWR (white sticker) on your drivers door jam. You need to fill the truck full of fuel and drive over a commercial weigh scale. This will give you actual GVW (never mind what the sales brochure says). Add weight of all passengers and an average of 180 LBS for your 5th wheel hitch. Now minus all this from your GVWR and that is the remaining payload (kingpin weight) of a 5th wheel that you can tow. If you dont weigh your truck full of fuel you will never know what it ACTUALLY weighs to figure out your payload.

 

The GVWR for an '04 F250 is 8800 lbs. If your truck weighs 6000 lbs, that leaves you with 2800 lbs for all cargo, passengers, and trailer tongue/pin weight. If the GCWR is 13500 lbs, as you state, and your truck weighs 6000 lbs, the max total trailer weight your truck is rated to pull is 7500 lbs. That 9000 lb trailer will cause you to exceed the GCWR of your truck by 1500 lbs. You should be looking at trailers that weigh 7500 lbs or less. This is all assuming your truck weighs 6000 lbs. You didnt say if it was 4wd or 2wd and what cab size it is. The larger the cab, the more the truck will weigh, same with added weight for 4wd. My '92 F350 SRW CrewCab Longbed 4x4 with 351 engine typically weighs 6500 lbs, before I load anything in the bed or hook up a trailer. You may want to take your empty truck down the the local landfill where you can pull accross their scale for free and see how much the truck weighs, to get an idea of where you're at before you start loading it up.

 

no that is not what i mean. i know that, i was just wondering why if you look at the ford book it shows two diff weights for reg trailer towing and fifth wheel towing. it only shows this for the v10 and the dsl. It does make snc. if you tow a fifth wheel over tt it should be easr for the truck to pull the fiver. don't you think.

 

The rear axle capacity can be exceeded pretty easily by the pin weight of a 5th wheel. A properly hitched pull trailer will put its tongue weight evenly on both the front and rear axles. An F250 will likely be overloaded by a 10k lb 5th wheel but a 10k lb pull trailer will be well within the capacities of the truck.

 

I can see some logic in rating a dually truck to pull a heavier fifth wheel than conventional trailer, because the dually can handle the pin weight, and a heavy fifth wheel is not as squirly (sorry if I can't spell that...) to tow than a bumper hitch trailer. I don't see any logic in rating a 250 or 350 single rear wheel truck for a heavier fifth wheel though, since we know the pin weight of a heavy fifth is an issue on anything less than a dually.

 

final word from me........get the ACTUAL GVWR of YOUR truck (full of fuel and driver in the truck) by driving onto a commercial weigh scale. To this TRUE VEHICLE WEIGHT, add weight of 5th wheel hitch (about 180 LBS) plus all passengers. Minus this TOTAL WEIGHT from your GVWR which will be 8800 LBS (all F250's) and this is the REMAINING PAYLOAD you can put in the truck. 5th wheel kingpin weight IS PAYLOAD. So.....assuming your truck full of fuel weighs 6500 LBS with you in the drivers seat, 8800-6500= 2300 LBS. You would then be able to buy a 5'r with a kingpin weight of 2300 LBS. As you add passengers weight dont forget you must reduce your kingpin weight by the passengers weight. Kingpin weight is also dry weight so as you load up the front compartments on the 5'r, your kingpin weight also increases. Once you figure out what kingpin weight you can handle, take the GVWR of your truck = 8800LBS and add the GVWR of the trailer and you should not exceed 20,000 LBS for GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating). All Superduties....250, 350 and 350 dullies have a CGVWR of 20,000 LBS max. So...your max. trailer gross vehicle weight should not exceed 11,200 LBS. I hope this clears up what your looking for. I ran into the same issues and have done plenty of research on this and got plenty of help myself right here in FTE forums. Happy shopping

 

OPPPS...one final note. SoCalDesert Riders post just above my last one is good. Almost everyone pulling a 5'r down the road is overweight on payload (scarey thought eh). Although pulling a 5'r is THE ONLY WAY TO TOW vs. them fishtailing tag alongs, a duelly 350 would almost always be the only real safe choice. Kingpin weight kills an otherwise perfect trailer.

 

Diesel Dug, good post.

I have one clarification about the 20,000 lbs max GCWR for all Superduties...

That 20,000 lb rating is for the diesel engine with 3.73 axle ratio and the V10 with 4.30 axle ratio.

The GCWR for the 5.4L engine is significantly less.... 13,500 lbs with the 3.73 axle and 15,000 lbs with the 4.10 axle.

The V10 with the 3.73 axle is 17,000 lbs.

This is from the '03 Ford commercial truck towing guide.

 

ok ok ok i'm not making fun of you guys with all the numbers. in fact i'm glad you are at this site to help, but you keep going back to the numbers, when that is not what i want to know. if you look at the numbers and the trucks it is not the truck that can not handle the weight it is the engine. i have 3.73 on my 5.4 if i just pop out my engine and put in a diesel i can pull more weight. it is not the axel or truck or springs of any other thing you can think of its the engine for the most part. if you add a 4" block to the f25o 2004, mine has the 2" block the weight goes up. why its because the back is higher and can now squat farther. the axel, engine etc. could handle the weight the whole time. do you get what i'm trying to ask. if not i will try and explaine more. thnks for all your help on the numbers. before i came to this site i did not know i was over weight.. actually you made me worry more. this could be a good thing. i well never believe a salesmen again.

 

Viken, the engine size and axle ratio are the main determining factors in the GCWR (rating for combined weight of truck and trailer). The GCWR is a TOWING rating.

The truck's GVWR (rating for max weight of the truck, used to determine PAYLOAD) is related to it's frame, suspension, brakes, axles and wheels and tires.

Where Payload and Towing mingle together is when you have a fifth wheel trailer with a heavy pin weight, which puts a heavy load on the truck (payload). If the truck's GVWR is not enough to cover the truck's empty weight AND the trailer's pin weight, that is where GVWR becomes the deciding factor in the Towing capacity. I say this because you asked about the differences between 5th and conventional trailer pull ratings and if it made sense....

Yes, if you were to change to a lower (numerically higher) axle ratio, or change to a more powerful engine, your GCWR will increase, but that doesn't do anything for your truck's GVWR and it's ability to handle a heavy pin weight. If your truck is fine on the pin weight, then don't worry about it .

The numbers I quoted in my last reply illustrate what the different ratings are for the bigger engines and lower axle ratios.

I hope that helps answer your question. Of course by now, I'm sure what exactly the question is...

 

Another thing that's considered with GCWR is the capacity of the cooling system - and I'm not sure if the radiator or tranny cooler used with the 5.4L have enough cooling capacity for towing that kind of load in hot weather. Plus, I believe the internal tranny components are different than what Ford couples with the V10 (same tranny, different internals)...which could be another issue.

While it's true that you see a lot of overloaded F250s, most of them are running the diesel or the V10...I haven't seen many with the 5.4L. And, a 9000 pound 5th wheel will definitely push you over the GCWR - 13500-9000=4500 pounds, and even the lightest SDs weigh well over 5,000 pounds (I think a 2wd regular-cab XL is about 5,300 pounds empty).

LK