Ok, here is what I have planned for the engine rebuild in my 90' Bronco (with 92' clip) so far. This rebuild is happening a little sooner than I had hoped for due to the engine breaking a piston skirt and bending a rod a few weeks ago. Plan as of current is:

Probe 408 ci stroker kit with their cast crank, forged pistons (15cc dish) and their 5140 CNC machined beam rods with ARP bolts.

I was going to make the switch to aftermarket heads had the engine given me more time to save the funds, but its just not currently in the budget. This forced me to do further investigation and I'm glad I did. What I came across was that although the stock E7TE-PA heads are apparently dogs in stock form, alot of 5.0 Mustang guys have been sticking with them and apparently they really come around with mods. So, tomorrow I am boxing up my heads and shipping them off to Powerheads the flow numbers they can get out of the E7's is somewhat hard to believe, but its about all I can see affording as of current. Powerheads per their website and my phone conversation claim they can get these to flow 217cfm on the intake and 174 on the exhaust @ .500" lift, after CNC porting, bowl work and fitting them with 1.90/1.60 valves. The low and mid lift flow numbers are really impressive as well. I would think this would equate into a very strong and flat torque curve. Hopeing for a good big block impression on the torque numbers.

Intake will be the Edelbrock Performer for the 5.8 truck.

Will be ordering the Ford Lightning Mass Air conversion kit shortly (ouch big bucks).

The undecided items are:

Cam.......Hydraulic Roller or Flat Tappet? Specs?
If I can afford it I'll go roller, just not sure yet.
Was kind of thinking of something in the 220-230 duration + area and maybe up around .550" lift Dual pattern

Roller Rockers yes, but who's???? what would be durable and cheap and fit under stock covers????

Please Note: this engine will have to pass emissions testing, so the usual compromise situation. I want as much cam as will safely pass the sniffer test.

Throttle body size???? Had not even gotten that far yet.

Stock volume oil pump or high volume???? Curious as I've seen reference to HV but still low (stock?) pressure. I don't want real high pressure at cold start ups.

Would like to keep the stock valve covers and oil pan.

Do I need a windage tray???? If so how do I add that?

Headers? Well everyone I've talked to says this thing is gonna want 1 3/4" primarys, but the only shorty emissions legal headers I've spotted for my application are the BBK's with 1 5/8" tubes. So they may just have to do.

I have the O4D trans with a shift kit and I am hoping to be able to afford a looser convertor if not immediately, in a very short time.

My Bronco already does have a 2 1/2" true dual exhaust with flowmasters, exiting on each side before the rear wheels.

Thats about it off the top of my head. Any and all input is greatly appreaciated. Thanks in advance.

 

On your cylinder heads, those #'s for the ported heads are not bad flow #'s for a 289, but they will not be adequate for a 408 cubic inch engine, sorry. You need to save enough dimes to get a set of aftermarket heads. A set of AFR 185 2.02/1.60's right out of the box will flow 267 at .500, with some port work you will have a head that flows in the 300 range, which is where you want to be with this much displacement.

A Hydraulic Roller cam would be the best choice on a MAS engine. Call Comp Cam and speak with their tech department to find out a good cam for the combo you want to run.

Roller rockers are always a good idea, I dont think any of them will fit under the stock valve cover though. The Ford SVO ones are good, Cranes are good and Harland Sharp.

Check with Bassani to see if they have made their 1 3/4 headers, they werer talking about it several years back, I'm running their 1 5/8 on my stroker.

On your throttle body size, call Pro M and they will help to get you dialed in on that.

You will need to match up your torque convertor choice with the cam you deceide to use. If your tranny hasent been upgraded with a shift kit at the minimun, you will want to do that. Throw a tranny temp gauge on her too, as if your using a higher stall convertor, your going to know whats going on in your tranny. You will also need to do a aftermarket cooler in front of the radiator.

How about your rear end? You'll probably want to strenthen or replace that too to be able to handle the increaseed power or you'll just scatter it.

These are some good starts. Take a gander at my gallery for my Bronco, 408 with a Vortech S/C.

 

Thanks for the info. I will look into the Bassani Headers.

But......on my head selection...um......are we just talking about a situation where the 408 would be choked about like a 351 with untouched heads????

Or worse????

I was thinking that I could change out the heads in 6 months or maybe longer if I was fairly satisfied with the power output and frankly I probably would not have the money for new heads until then.

My situation is clearly one where the funds really are not there to do the complete rebuild the way I would prefer. But I need to get this rig rolling again quickly and if I could get the short block the way I wanted, the heads could just be changed at a later date. At least thats been my thinking. I was basically thinking that even a head restricted 408 would have a lot more torque and power than a 351 with the same heads.

What do ya think???? Is this not a doable option????

Incidently, the flow numbers for the Powerheads E7's are as follows:
(Superflow SF600)

.200" .300" .400" .500"
124.0 189.5 213.0 217.0 Intake
109.0 150.5 169.3 174.0 Exhaust

AFR 185's #1420's (Per Ted at AFR)

.200" .300" .400" .500" .550" .600"
129.0 189.0 234.0 267.0 273.0 277.0 Intake
118.0 153.0 178.0 185.0 190.0 191.0 Exhaust

 

Just out of curiosity, how much $$ are they going to charge you to port a set of E7's, cut larger valve seats and the cost of the larger valves from powerheads?

You should get alot more TQ/HP from a well built 408, but with the cam your talking about, it probably wont run well unless you put some decent flowing heads on it. You might not be able to get a cam of that size to pass smog if you have inspections in your area.

How about your rearend?Is it a stock 8.8?

 

$700. for the heads with springs good to .530", 1.90/1.60 SS undercut stem valves.

I am thinking I will probably have to tame down the cam specs as well as I do have to pass emissions. Although this is in the area of the cam specs recomended to me by Coast High Perf./Probe when I told them the initial combo. They had actually recomended either a 214/222 517/520 or a 225/232 546/560 Roller both on a 112 lobe sep. I may hold off on the Roller conversion for now as thats obviously additional expense over staying with a flat tappet cam.

And yes the 8.8 is stock for now.

What would you put together knowing my dilema????

I really want to get the short block stroked right off the bat as it will not be convenient for me to pull the engine out again for quite some time.

Thanks again for the help!

 

I dont know that I would invest 700 bones in a set of heads that are still going to be way too small...

For a mere 500 greenies more, you could get yourself into a good set of AFR's, even if you had to spend another 700, it's going to be worth doing it right the first time, otherwise that other 700 is just in the wind. Sell aluminum cans, take on a second job, whatever it takes, boss!

Stick to cams in that range, I would definialty talk to Comp Cams, ask about their 35-518-8, that one is a 224/232 555/565 on 112 center, they're cams are well made and will go with that combo nicely. With my full port TFS heads, Desktop Dyno estimates on my 408 are in the 430 HP/ 465 TQ range.

The stock 8.8 will probably make it about as long as a race engine warranty. You will want to look into getting a Detroit Locker for it or you'll scatter your spider gears the 1st time you romp it, guaranteed.

 

Ouch.........as long as a race engine warranty huh......so those spiders are gonna go in a milasecond it sounds like.

Is a locker the only way you'd recomend going to get rid of the weak spiders?

I could recoup the money or some of it by just reselling the E7's down the road. Or I might just keep them as I do want to get into a 5.0 fox body down the road.

I'm looking for a second job and aluminum cans and I have held off sending my E7's out do to our conversation.

 

Hey are GT40 Y303's anything to consider?

And what are your thoughts on the AFR 185's?

 

Hey Tuff, you might want to consider speaking with a rear end specialty shop on other alternatives to the locker if your not keen about that idea, that was what the shop I took my rig to did to mine and they told me at the time that was about the only option for a high HP application.

The GT 40 heads are a nice set, but the AFR 185 is far superior, especially for a larger displacement engine such as the 408 your going to put together.

 

Hey, what about these Pro Topline heads????

Their Iron heads look very reasonably priced, at least if the pricing I spotted is for complete assembled heads.

I may have just stumbled on the heads to fit my 408 buildup.

 

Hey Tuff,

I had not heard about those heads, I checked out their web site. The ports and chambers are "as cast", this means no clean up work has been done on them. Arent the AFR's match ported? And I believe their comb. chambers are CNC cut, instead of cast. Cast combustion chambers in a iron head should be polished to eliminate casting imperfections that can cause possible hot spots resulting in preignition issues. You also want your heads to be match ported, with these two jobs, they will cost you more than the aluminum AFR's. I think you would have a superior product with AFR 185's and have less $$ in them to be honest.

 

Damn computer's this is my second attempt to reply, my IE locked and closed, just lost alot of typing.

Grrrrrr.......Ok, after much investigation I have narrowed the cylinder head choice down to either the Pro Topline 200cc or 215cc heads.

I appreaciate the point about the as cast situation, very good point. However after finding some pretty good close up pics on the net and talking earlier today with Topline, I'd have to say the as cast finish looks very smooth. Not even a comparison to factory type casting roughness. When I asked Topline on the phone about it today the guy responded by saying "you haven't seen our heads yet have you". I am hoping to get a chance to see some in person tomorrow and if they look good well I might have some heads for this baby.

With regards to some casting issues that existed early on, the new castings don't have any issues with that, according to others who have bought the newest versions and or seen them in person. According to those people they sound really, really nice from everything I could find.

The Topline 200cc's outflow out of the box AFR 185's by a good amount and the Topline 215's outflow by alot, everywhere! Sounds good to me, no porting cost, thats what I need right now.

My interest in the Toplines came about from my tight budget and just not wanting to spend the money for the AFR's. Likewise I gave more and more thought to the E7's not being adequate no matter how worked they were. So........ I almost sent my E7's out to have them worked for $700. with studs and guide plates they would have been up to $800. I'm sure.

So far the best price I've found on the Toplines is $800 complete. Thats with SS undercut valves, springs good to .550" lift and good quality guides. I'm hopeing to better on that price with a local wholesaler if I can buy them through the shop thats going to build my 408 short block.

My problem at this point is deciding between the 200cc or 215cc version. If I didn't have to pass emissions I'd probably opt for the 215cc heads and I still may. I'm just alittle concerned about losing to much port velocity at lower rpms and that possible effect with low end power or throttle response and there again the emissions testing thing.

The restrictor on this engine is going to be the Edelbrock Truck EFI intake. Its much better than the stock peice, but. Well I may have to change to the car style down the road to get the better fuel distribution and higher flow charactoristics.

I came across several 420" Windsors with 525 to 550 lift cams and under 10:1 comp. making well over 500 HP and around 550 ft lbs of torque, NA. Makes me wish I didn't have to deal with emissions testing and such. From poeple I've asked so far that should be in the know, well.......depending on various factors I should be able to hope for 425-450 HP maybe a little more. If I could run a better intake and better headers and bump the cam up well....hello 500 HP.

The head intake port velocity and cam choice are my biggest concerns.

So what are your thoughts at this point 94F150-408????

Did you run your 408 before you had the supercharger on it. If so what did she run like, especially off idle and through the lower rpms???? And did she pass emissions testing????

Also with the 30# injectors that will come with the Lightning Mass Air conversion kit, am I going to have to get an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator to lower the pressure to keep from washing down the cylinders. I don't want to hurt this baby when I get her together.

Sorry to ramble and thanks for the help, I owe somebody a beer or two or three......

I spoke to one shop today and happened to mention the possibility of a low psi supercharger down the road and they assumed I was putting this beast in a fox body and they commented "man you are gonna smoke LS1 Vettes and Camaros before you get any SC and how I might not need it", lol.... then I clarrified this is just gonna be a truck motor!!!! Silence for a few seconds. Funny thing is I do want to get a Fox body Mustang for their lightweight and short wheelbase. Hopefully I can learn some things here that will carry over to that 10 second Stang I'd like to build down the road.

 

well, good luck on this project 1Tuff, your gonna have some fun in store!

If the Toplines come are what they say they are, your going to be in good shape. The 200cc is probably the one your after.

I would have to say your right in th ballpark on your HP being around 425+, you would really be losing out on your bottom end torque if you were around 550. Most guys in that range are probably spinning up the motor a little higher than you will with your set up.

You'll probably be Ok with the 30lb injectors. I would get a adjustable fuel pressure regulator that bolts right in where the factory unit was on the rail. There are several good ones out there. You want to maintain a constant pressure and you'll be able to do this with a quality regulator.

I never ran my 408 without the SuperCharger on it, so I cant tell you the performance without it. It did pass emission testing with some tweaking.

 

Thanks much, I can't wait!