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  #721  
Old 08-01-2004, 07:38 PM
dspencer dspencer is offline
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If you take fords word for it.

Cummins came out with 4 valves per cylinder in mid 1998, doesn't it still use cast iron block and head? There is no comparison with the turbo that ford uses, I wish the Dodge had one, however I don't know how it would extend engine life. So far I have heard of no statistical comparable data that would favor the Powerstroke. None that would favor the Cummins either for that matter, other than the post mentioning the several million mile trucks. Not exactly scientific but also on the ford forum no names either of a ford million miler. Now if we had a way of finding numbers of say 300k, 400k, 500k trucks and could compare that to sales figures we would have something.

If someone had statistics that would show average engine life other than manufacturers claims on run time to rebuild, that would figure in. The 98% fords on the road claim would mean something if we knew what the other trucks percentages were. Most of what has been posted has been peoples opinions, not comparable facts.
If you went to the chevy or dodge forums asking about which motor is the longest lasting, the answer would be different no doubt.

Wasn't it sargeant Friday that said something like "the facts, maam, just the facts"
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  #722  
Old 08-01-2004, 07:58 PM
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dspencer, the original question wanted to know how Ford made this claim with the problems associated with a lot of the current engines. This was answered directly on a Ford webpage. The original post didn't want to start a debate over whether the PSD was the most durable diesel engine or not, which is what this thread has become. The original question has been answered. If you guys want to keep debating which engine is better why don't you dig up one of the old Cummins vs PSD threads. There have been plenty of them in this forum.

Sorry for the rant, but this thread has moved WAY off the original topic. I spent 2 minutes on Ford's website today and found the answer. Let's move on or start another thread. I'm getting kind of tired of people jumping in on the last couple of pages without reading all of what has already been said.
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  #723  
Old 08-01-2004, 08:24 PM
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Yeah, they want to discuss the I-6 Hemi Diesel.
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  #724  
Old 08-01-2004, 08:25 PM
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Well, all the Dodge fans here seem to be ignoring what the original question was. They eventually turn every single thread that mentions the PSD into a PSD vs Cummins debate.
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  #725  
Old 08-01-2004, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW95F250
Yeah, they want to discuss the I-6 Hemi Diesel.
I'm starting to think that you want one.
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  #726  
Old 08-01-2004, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NascarNut
I'm starting to think that you want one.
It does have a special "ring" to it doesn't it?

Just trying to break the monotony in this thread.
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  #727  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Choctaw Bob
I totally disagree that the cummins out performs the 6.0. All the numbers indicate different. In the real world as well my truck will outpull, outrun and out last any dodge truck. I don't know where you are getting your information but you have been misinformed. Check my gallery for some real power numbers.
In an engine dyno comarison, the 600 Cummins is stronger than the 6.0 PSD. Point out to me where I am wrong on an engine dyno. Use factory numbers supplied by Dodge and Ford. Also, not chassis dyno numbers because that is not an engine comparison, thats a system comparison. So, Choctaw Bob, I think you are misinformed. You have drug entire truck into the comparison, again. I have said countless times, that I know that Fords total system is better than Dodges. Fords transmission is much more efficient and much more properly matched to their engine than Dodges. But the 6.0 on engine dyno just does not match the 600.
  #728  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ga302p
In an engine dyno comarison, the 600 Cummins is stronger than the 6.0 PSD. Point out to me where I am wrong on an engine dyno. Use factory numbers supplied by Dodge and Ford. Also, not chassis dyno numbers because that is not an engine comparison, thats a system comparison. So, Choctaw Bob, I think you are misinformed. You have drug entire truck into the comparison, again. I have said countless times, that I know that Fords total system is better than Dodges. Fords transmission is much more efficient and much more properly matched to their engine than Dodges. But the 6.0 on engine dyno just does not match the 600.
Quit beating this dead horse--this thread is old and we have discussed every possible aspect. Otherwise I will let loose with the I-6 Hemi Diesel stuff again.
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  #729  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:12 PM
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Choctaw Bob, I will put the numbers up for you. 2004 6.0 psd. Dyno numbers provided by Ford 325 hp, 560 Ft. lbs. Torque.


2004 600 Cummins. 325 H.P. 600 FT. LBS torque. Numbers supplied by Cummins For Dodge.

Hmm.. Maybe I was misinformed in my math class when they told me that 600 was higher than 560. I will have to check that out and get back to you. If 600 is really higher than 560, maybe you are misinformed Choctaw Bob.
  #730  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsdiesel
Well, all the Dodge fans here seem to be ignoring what the original question was. They eventually turn every single thread that mentions the PSD into a PSD vs Cummins debate.
The PSD is the most durable engine compared to? It has to be in comparison to something. I dont think they meant the duramax. It was not in production in 94. Ssoooo.... I have lept to a conclusion based on the available information and showed why I think it is incorrect. I based durability on the longest lasting not on all of em on the road. I think this was incorrect for me to do. The cummins has more engines that have lasted an extreme amount of time but this does not mean they are more reliable or dependable. However I read a recent JD power survey that says that the cummins has 28 complaints per hundred and the PSD has 60 or so. So for reliability at the time of the survey. It leans heavily towards the cummins.
  #731  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:31 PM
Logical Heritic Logical Heritic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ga302p
In an engine dyno comarison, the 600 Cummins is stronger than the 6.0 PSD. Point out to me where I am wrong on an engine dyno. Use factory numbers supplied by Dodge and Ford. Also, not chassis dyno numbers because that is not an engine comparison, thats a system comparison. So, Choctaw Bob, I think you are misinformed. You have drug entire truck into the comparison, again. I have said countless times, that I know that Fords total system is better than Dodges. Fords transmission is much more efficient and much more properly matched to their engine than Dodges. But the 6.0 on engine dyno just does not match the 600.
As for the system comparison. Wasnt the allison chevy uses designed specifically for the duramax.
I know a tranny builder. He has the insider magazines with numbers about reliability. He told me that the allison mechanically is sound. Said the computer in it is crap. Suggested I wait til they had all the software dialed in. In other words the tranny had a lot of problems with its electronics.
  #732  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:31 PM
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Again, you're missing the point. If the Cummins has 600 at 3,200 rpms (not sure of the exact rpm level, just saying) but never has above 300 up until 3,000 rpms, and the PSD has between 500 and 560 all the way from 1,800 rpms until 4,000 rpms, then the Cummins has potential if you hold at that particular rpm, but for those of use who live in the real world and know that you don't drive that way, the PSD is going to be the stronger engine. That's why it tows more, it has more USEABLE power. Not because it has one spike that is in an unuseable range for real-world applications. If you want to say the Cummins is stronger, then say it. Hope you feel better about it, because the 6.0 trucks still tow and haul more than any Dodge with a Cummins has ever been capable of. That's with a manual or an automatic. I've said it before and I'll say it again, what good is the most torque if your drivetrain can't back it up?
  #733  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical Heritic
The PSD is the most durable engine compared to? It has to be in comparison to something. I dont think they meant the duramax. It was not in production in 94. Ssoooo.... I have lept to a conclusion based on the available information and showed why I think it is incorrect. I based durability on the longest lasting not on all of em on the road. I think this was incorrect for me to do. The cummins has more engines that have lasted an extreme amount of time but this does not mean they are more reliable or dependable. However I read a recent JD power survey that says that the cummins has 28 complaints per hundred and the PSD has 60 or so. So for reliability at the time of the survey. It leans heavily towards the cummins.
Your first mistake is when you leapt to conclusions. Your second mistake is basing durability on an entire line of engines on less than ten of each kind. You have less than ten million mile Cummins motors, and you have seen less than 5 PSDs on shop floors. I base durability on which engine is going to get me home no matter what, and evidently, 98% of all PSDs made can do that. I don't see that claim for Cummins. Odds are, engine vs. engine on a single scale, the PSD will last longer. This is true until you show me something saying that more than 98% of all Cummins engines in Dodge trucks are still on the road. I haven't seen that claim from Chevrolet, either.
  #734  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:50 PM
FERacing66 FERacing66 is offline
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yeah lets move onto something else this thread is ancient.
  #735  
Old 08-01-2004, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW95F250
Quit beating this dead horse--this thread is old and we have discussed every possible aspect. Otherwise I will let loose with the I-6 Hemi Diesel stuff again.
Looks like you are going to have to.
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Old 08-01-2004, 11:05 PM
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