OK, so if you buy K&N's testing, here's the testing from the other side. I believe the AFE they tested was the older style. From The Diesel Stop:
I have the SAE J726 filtration effeciency ratings for the AFE, K&N, stock, and Donaldson (Baldwin). Although some of the mentioned companies will give you the cumulative results of the test, which look better because a dirty filter will be more efficient at filtration than a clean filter, what you don't get when they are dirty is good air flow. These initial ratings show good air flow since the filter is clean.
AFE**** (conical replacement intake) - 95.4%
K&N*** (in the stock box)- 97.1%
K&N** (conical replacement intake) - 97.3%
Motorcraft (in the stock box) - 98.7%
Donaldson* (barrel replacement intake) - 99.8%
*The Donaldson test reflects a Tymar style intake and may not properly reflect home made versions or intakes that do not supply the minimum radial clearance for the filter as supplied from the manufacturer.
** K&N literature states up to 99%. Cumulative results were 99.05%
** K&N literature states up to 99%. Cumulative results were 99.1%
****AFE literature specifies that it filters particles sized down to 2.5 microns that cause engine wear at a 99.9% efficiency rate while passing the smaller than 2.5 micron size that they claim are harmless. When a specific 2.5 micron test was done at 530 cfm with 0.0025 per cubic foot volume rate and 100 grams, the result was actually only 88%. The same test for the Donaldson resulted in 98%.
Good data John! Do you have the link so we can all go read the fine print? Thanks again.
__________________
03 6.0 SC Short bed 2WD Auto
Preditor, Gages, K & N FIPK
Good data John! Do you have the link so we can all go read the fine print? Thanks again.
That's from a post by the owner of the company over at The Diesel Stop. I guarantee that if you post over there he will more than answer your questions about his methodology.
BTW, I just realized we are practically neighbors.
__________________
1997 F250 HD PSD SuperCab 4X4 ZF5 4.10
173K miles CMP Info1 CMP Info2
That's from a post by the owner of the company over at The Diesel Stop. I guarantee that if you post over there he will more than answer your questions about his methodology.
BTW, I just realized we are practically neighbors.
We are neighbors in Texas neighborhoods! jdadams lives south of arlington. We plan to go racing at the Motorplex at Ennis sometime soon. Why don't you join us?
__________________
03 6.0 SC Short bed 2WD Auto
Preditor, Gages, K & N FIPK
We are neighbors in Texas neighborhoods! jdadams lives south of arlington. We plan to go racing at the Motorplex at Ennis sometime soon. Why don't you join us?
Send me an email when you're going and I'll join you if I'm free. Thanks for the invite.
__________________
1997 F250 HD PSD SuperCab 4X4 ZF5 4.10
173K miles CMP Info1 CMP Info2
OK guys..........continue to keep this going in a POSITIVE direction.
All...WILL have, and CAN have different and varied opinions............
so just keep posting NICE and informative views.
__________________
Administrator
tim.lamkin@internetbrands dot com
Life is not only time……paradoxically, it is the denial of time!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Fm John
OK, I wasn't going to respond but this was uncalled for. I'm certainly not a hit and run flamer. It's NOT illegal for Ford and Cummins to void your warranty if a K&N damages your engine because you have installed a product that doesn't meet the manufacturers specification. Magnuson-Moss only protects you from having to buy replacement parts from Ford, but they have the right to set the standard. Any damage caused by modifications is not covered.
You point is very well made and fully understood (( Any damage caused by modifications is not covered ))-- with one exception, to your well phrased point. The manufacturer has to prove it. If they cannot, then they loose the issue -- "claiming", the modification damaged the unit, is not sufficient. Documented proof is required; and with that in mind, there is usually a rebuttal to that proof by the side claiming that the modification did not cause the direrct damage. That type of rebuttal frequently is presented by the after-market manucture. Therefore, the tryer of fact, judge, commissioner, jury makes the decision. Not the manufacture (Ford), nor the complainant (truck owner or K&N rep).
Quote:
Magnuson-Moss only protects you from having to buy replacement parts from Ford
In closing, a fulll reading of the actual act, will reveal, additionally, the necessity & importance of the proof issue.
Just A Thought...............on...............My Perceptions................
You point is very well made and fully understood (( Any damage caused by modifications is not covered ))-- with one exception, to your well phrased point. The manufacturer has to prove it. If they cannot, then they loose the issue -- "claiming", the modification damaged the unit, is not sufficient. Documented proof is required; and with that in mind, there is usually a rebuttal to that proof by the side claiming that the modification did not cause the direrct damage. That type of rebuttal frequently is presented by the after-market manucture. Therefore, the tryer of fact, judge, commissioner, jury makes the decision. Not the manufacture (Ford), nor the complainant (truck owner or K&N rep).
In closing, a fulll reading of the actual act, will reveal the necessity of Proof.
Just A Thought...............on...............My Perceptions................
The way I look at it, why even risk the hassle, stay with the OEM air filter, and there will not be any questions asked when it comes to a warranty issue!!!!
The way I look at it, why even risk the hassle, stay with the OEM air filter, and there will not be any questions asked when it comes to a warranty issue!!!!
I think I have made this point a few months back on the same subject with the same crowd.
You can keep your truck stock. It's yours, or your wives or whatever but you have control over your truck.
I get to do what I want to do with my truck.
Some people at times forget that we all get to make our own decisions and enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences.
If my truck wears out in 20,000 miles, I can afford to fix it or push it in the lake and buy another one. If I want to run it without an air cleaner and straight exhaust and pour 2 ounces of nitro in every tank, I get to do it. This is the USA where we don't have to agree with anyone if we don't like the way they are trying to push us or intimidate us.
So there.
I'm going to run the K&N anyway even if it tested within a couple of precentage points of filtration from a restrictive stock air filter. I'm going to run it because it makes more power and I like it. O.K?
__________________
03 6.0 SC Short bed 2WD Auto
Preditor, Gages, K & N FIPK
You know, Choctaw, for years I have been looking for the exact right words to reply to everyone that tries to make decisions for me on things that are under my control, including my truck. If i had been capable of developing the perfect words of reply to those people, it would have come out nearly identical to your statement
"If my truck wears out in 20,000 miles, I can afford to fix it or push it in the lake and buy another one. If I want to run it without an air cleaner and straight exhaust and pour 2 ounces of nitro in every tank, I get to do it. This is the USA where we don't have to agree with anyone if we don't like the way they are trying to push us or intimidate us.
So there."
Not taking sides in this argument, I just think your statement was so very, very true. Everyone is entitled to do what they like with what they own. Those people who can afford to damage their engines if they please should not be critized for doing so; it is thier money, and that, i suppose, is part of the pleasure in wealth. I only plan on having my truck 20K miles or so anyways...gotta have one of the new 05's
You know, Choctaw, for years I have been looking for the exact right words to reply to everyone that tries to make decisions for me on things that are under my control, including my truck. If i had been capable of developing the perfect words of reply to those people, it would have come out nearly identical to your statement
I only plan on having my truck 20K miles or so anyways...gotta have one of the new 05's
Me too. I drove one of the new 04 F-150s and they are by far the most refined truck ever. If the 05 PSDs are anything like them and if I'm satisfied they have fixed the problems, I will seriously consider trading. Then I can put a K&N on another truck!
__________________
03 6.0 SC Short bed 2WD Auto
Preditor, Gages, K & N FIPK
Choctaw Bob, I agree too, people have the right to do what they want to their truck. That being said, I think it is valuable to everyone involved, especially those with questions, to discuss these issues from all points of view. That's what great about this website, you can discuss these issues openly and get some really good information to help you make a decision.
__________________
1997 F250 HD PSD SuperCab 4X4 ZF5 4.10
173K miles CMP Info1 CMP Info2
Fm Bob
The way I look at it, why even risk the hassle, stay with the OEM air filter, and there will not be any questions asked when it comes to a warranty issue!!!!
On the above point, I cannot offer even a thought of a rebuttle.
__________________
Just A Thought...............on...............My Perceptions................
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Last edited by "Luke" SdeS : 04-15-2004 at 10:37 PM.
I am beginning to believe that we have exhausted and extracted
all the technical benefit from this post.
More than likely....all can make their own choice.
__________________
Administrator
tim.lamkin@internetbrands dot com
Life is not only time……paradoxically, it is the denial of time!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
I think I have made this point a few months back on the same subject with the same crowd.
You can keep your truck stock. It's yours, or your wives or whatever but you have control over your truck.
I get to do what I want to do with my truck.
Some people at times forget that we all get to make our own decisions and enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences.
If my truck wears out in 20,000 miles, I can afford to fix it or push it in the lake and buy another one. If I want to run it without an air cleaner and straight exhaust and pour 2 ounces of nitro in every tank, I get to do it. This is the USA where we don't have to agree with anyone if we don't like the way they are trying to push us or intimidate us.
So there.
I'm going to run the K&N anyway even if it tested within a couple of precentage points of filtration from a restrictive stock air filter. I'm going to run it because it makes more power and I like it. O.K?
Bob, you have made some very valid points!! One thing I totally agree with you on is the freedom to do whatever we like with our vehicles!! I have done a lot of posting on the
technical reasons NOT to use a K&N air filter in a road vehicle, but at no time have I told you or anybody else "You can't use a K&N air filter".
I appreciate fine machinery, and I take the best of care of all my vehicles!! I just hate to see a vehicle abused in any
way, and this is the reason I have taken a stand against
K&N air filters!!!
