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  #1  
Old 10-30-2002, 07:55 PM
bilder12 bilder12 is offline
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cummins swap

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  #2  
Old 12-19-2002, 09:58 PM
gregdatech2 gregdatech2 is offline
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cummins swap

Anyone ever swap a Cummins 5.9l into a Ford, like the 70's 3/4 or 1 ton 4x4's? Curious what would be involved. I have a divorced transfer case already, so I could whatever manual trans came with it.
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Old 12-19-2002, 10:54 PM
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cummins swap

Hope the transfer case has a good lawyer. Sorry I couldnt resist. Just a question though. Do you think the cummins is a better engine than Fords PSD??


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  #4  
Old 12-20-2002, 06:41 AM
gregdatech2 gregdatech2 is offline
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cummins swap

Side by side, I think the power stroke has the advantage, in a broader powerband, while cummins has the fuel economy clinched. Only problem with the navistar is all the electronics you would have to carry over, and the harness. With the Cummins, the ones before the 24 valve version, I think they are more self contained, and would be an easier swap, maybe Im wrong. The transfer case is a NP205, and they used them behind cummins for a few years so Id have no worries,lol.
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2002, 08:37 PM
ddestruel ddestruel is offline
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cummins swap

What kind of questions do you have? By the way if you get a 98 and later 24 valve you can change the front plate, timing gear set and pump to the 94-97.5 inline pump and then get custom lines to make it run. I know several guys who have done this. Anyways feel free to ask away or email me. If you want to build lots of horsepower the 94-97 inline pump motors are easier to modify and push more fuel than the earlier rototry pump motors.

You can run any tranny you want, the question is what do you want out of the motor and tranny combo. 89-93 came with rotory pumps on the motors (which are a little more prone to failure) and getrag 5 speed trannys (which are costly to rebuild) 94-97.5 came with the bosch p7100 inline pump on the motors and had HP ratings of 160HP/1994; 175-180HP/1995-1996; 215HP/1996-1997 manual tranny trucks.

The NP205 will be perfecly fine, the divorced unit is slightly weaker than some of the married units because of the spline counts and the smaller yokes used. but overall it is a better unit in my opinion than the chain driven t-cases for high torque and HP motors. I am running 300HP and 715 ft/lbs to my rear wheels and the NP205 is staying together.



As to the question about whether the cummins is better than a PSD. That is like debating whether a Big horse CAT is better than a big horse Cummins, its all opinion. Its best to not ask that, or be careful how you answer, it causes too many problems in the forum and causes good informative strings to be stopped because of immature arguements based mainly on opinion that errupt into bitter arguments.


They are both good engines and both have thier uses and purposes. Ford has used both the binder motor and the cummins side by side in thier larger 2ton trucks right back into the 1980's and they both have impecible service records neither engine is too small, horribly under powered (maybe the 6.9) nor incapible of being used hard. They both last for quite a number of miles, i have seen both engines in overloaded trucks in severe operating conditions last well over 500k. The only diference was back then and right into the 90's the 5.9 got about 2-4 MPG better than a loaded 7.3 or 6.9 powered 2tons.

Dusty



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Why Buy new when you can build and tailor it cheaper?
(updated) F-350 4x4 ext cab Short Bed Green Monster, it is now Sporting a 300HP 715lb/ft Dyno rated 5.9L 12v Cummins diesel now w/ NV5600 6 spd and custom NP205 ford T-case w/ rear spicer 1410 yoke, 3.55 gears using the 41 spline pinion and 1410 U-Joints, Power-Lok equipt Dana 60 front and posi rear, 315/75's on 16x8" Outlaw II's. (Used to have)205000 miles, Mass air 460 w/ performance heads and a E40d to 5spd conversion and Doug Thorleys. Old EFI 460 @10 MPG to the 12 V @ 23.2 MPG @ 75 MPH and loving it.
My other toy is a '69 CJ-5 354 Hemi 4 spd 4.88's 32x12.50 MThompsons w/ power-lok 44 rear.

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  #6  
Old 12-20-2002, 11:03 PM
Kenworth Kenworth is offline
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cummins swap

What I would be worried about is the front supension in the old 79 truck gonna beable to stand that much weight and if you truck has a dana 44 front axle I would consider swaping to a Dana 60.

Anything can be done it all depends on how fat you wallet is you would have to have a good shop to work in and have access to a welder and cutting torches. Finding a good used engine is another big task you can look at paying 4000 for a complete engine and finding a NV4500 transmission. Probably the easiest thing todo is find a junked Dodge with a good engine and buy the whole truck and go from there. You will have to gut the interior of your truck and insulate it for sound deadening a Cummins in a 79 would be pretty loud you would need to wear ear plugs.

Good luck on the project

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  #7  
Old 12-21-2002, 06:57 AM
gregdatech2 gregdatech2 is offline
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cummins swap

Well I have a 76-77 3/4ton ford. Its got a dana 60 in back and a 44hd up front. Id probably be leary of the 44 as well. Its solid axle sprung by leaves, so weight shouldnt hurt it as much. I like both motors, and have used both in the past to pull some heavy loads ,10 tons plus. The mechanical end can be fixed, with engine mounts etc, but the electrical end is my concern. How much more wiring is going to be involved, and headaches, cummins versus powerstroke? Itll be a manual trans config, either way.
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2002, 01:23 PM
ddestruel ddestruel is offline
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cummins swap

If you put in 308 gears you could run a 3 speed auto out of one of the early dodge diesels, as to wiring i think i had about 10 wires to connect, and this included starter wires which on now on the driverside and alternatior. i did look at the PSD swap the wiring for the computer and worrying about the correct voltage on each wire bothered me. 3 for the fuel shut off selenoid, 2 for the intake heaters, 2 for the oil and water sending units, 3 to the alternator. Also there are 2 extras if you desire to hook up the fuel heater? i havent yet but will in the future.

Kenworth is right definately pad the heck out of the truck including your hood and fender wells. the 89-93 motor is 3/4" shorter -1" at the fan hub which makes a big diffence. the 44HD should be OK, personally i would run the 60 but the main difference that you are looking at is the small ball joints which will be supporting the weight on the 44 and the bigger ones or the king pins (depending on which yer 60 you get) that the D60 offers(not to mention that the D60 uses larger axle shafts in the later years). you definately need to consider that in your decision, lots of people are getting away with the 44HDs in the front with cummins' under the hood with few problems besides some mild premature wear. Anyways food for thought.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displaythumbnail.php?&photoid=4039&.jpg
http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displaythumbnail.php?&photoid=474&.jpg

Why Buy new when you can build and tailor it cheaper?
(updated) F-350 4x4 ext cab Short Bed Green Monster, it is now Sporting a 300HP 715lb/ft Dyno rated 5.9L 12v Cummins diesel now w/ NV5600 6 spd and custom NP205 ford T-case w/ rear spicer 1410 yoke, 3.55 gears using the 41 spline pinion and 1410 U-Joints, Power-Lok equipt Dana 60 front and posi rear, 315/75's on 16x8" Outlaw II's. (Used to have)205000 miles, Mass air 460 w/ performance heads and a E40d to 5spd conversion and Doug Thorleys. Old EFI 460 @10 MPG to the 12 V @ 23.2 MPG @ 75 MPH and loving it.
My other toy is a '69 CJ-5 354 Hemi 4 spd 4.88's 32x12.50 MThompsons w/ power-lok 44 rear.

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  #9  
Old 12-21-2002, 01:48 PM
fatdaddy fatdaddy is offline
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cummins swap

There's a fairly indepth article about a Cummins swap into a 88 ford (Ithink) in one of the 4x4 mags currently on the shelf......very interesting article......Of course, they always have access too the best and most knowledgeable mechanics and they DON"t have too pay for the services they receive......fd
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Old 12-21-2002, 04:46 PM
gregdatech2 gregdatech2 is offline
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cummins swap

well I got the services part covered, I have my own shop,lol.
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  #11  
Old 12-21-2002, 05:05 PM
fatdaddy fatdaddy is offline
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cummins swap

greg , I hope that when you take on this project that you will Duplicate every aspect of the Swap.....with pictures , with details , and the various approaches that you considered and rejected and why you decided on a particular method........it will be especially helpful too Lots of folks who might want to attempt such a project, but without your writeup they would never really know where to start.....Anyway , anything you do will be better than what information is currently available......Of course, just plunking down 5k for an engine and 5 speed is a big hurdle to overcome not even considering the install after purchasing an engine and tranny....good luck as you seem very determined to start this project.......fd
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Old 02-14-2004, 07:38 PM
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I worked on a project for Ford when we were building the prototype 6.9s that put a cummins 5 cyl in a full size Bronco. It really did a number on the front suspension. The bronco is a lot more like a 1/2 ton truck so we had to try F-350 springs, still bent the axles after a while. This was a long time ago but the engineers didn't like the performance of the cummins, good power but slow accelerator.
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Old 02-14-2004, 08:45 PM
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Frost13 Frost13 is offline
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Someone in these forums switched a Cummins into a mid-70's Ford F-250. I can't remember who, but maybe he will show up. He also had pictures showing the process, but i can't remember the site.
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  #14  
Old 02-15-2004, 11:48 AM
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ltfox ltfox is offline
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Check out "www.fordcummins.com" They got pics of trucks they have done and can give all you need to do it your self.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:30 PM
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I'm looking to do the same swap with a 12valve into an 89 250
I'm replacing the twin I beam crap with a kingpin dana 60, not gonna
Even bother with the 44. I'm finding that fordcummins.com is very helpful
Also I went to a couple local diesel shops for advice also found that they can get their
Hands on a motor easier than I can very helpful, but I'm using my zf 5 spd and np205 t case,
I was told there's practicaly no wires besides the basics which is good me and wires don't mix
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:30 PM
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