Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Misc. > Fuel Injection, Carburetion & Fuel System
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 02-01-2004, 01:39 PM
vee-eight-fords vee-eight-fords is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 39
vee-eight-fords is starting off with a positive reputation.
1987 F250 Won't start. Fuel problem. Help!

I am having a no-start problem with my 1987 Ford F250 4x4, 302 with 4speed. The truck will not start, but it does fire on starting fluid. The spark plugs are dry. I replaced the high pressure fuel pump one month ago after it failed. Up until now the truck was running fine. The truck did't die while running, it just wouldn't start one day after work. I replaced the fuel pressure regulator today with no change. The fuel pump is operating, and I have 41 psi of fuel pressure at the schrader valve. I have good spark at the spark plugs. I pulled an injector wire and it gives my test light a constant light when the key is on, and a quick pulsing light when I attempt to start the engine. Can you offer me any suggestions on what the problem might be? I really need the truck as the snow keeps coming. Help!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-01-2004, 02:30 PM
lee lee is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 838
lee is starting off with a positive reputation.
Wow,

Well you have done yer homework and checked all of the obvious. If it will run on starting fluid then it's not a spark or timing issue. That only leaves fuel as the problem.

Hum, if you have good pressure at the schrader value and it appears that the injectors are getting voltage. I wonder if it's a fuel volume problem. Does the truck even try to fire when you crank it? Have you checked the pressure while trying to crank the engine. Maybe the regulator is allowing to much fuel to return to the tank and not allowing enough pressure to build up in the fuel rail for the injectors to operate.

It would be interesting to know how much fuel is flowing out the return line to the tank.

This is a tough one.

Good luck,
__________________
Lee

1970 F-250 Hi-boy 4x4, 3-inch body lift, 390FE bored .060 over, Edel RPM intake, GT profile cam, Holley 670CFM Street Avenger Carb, NP-435 four speed, Ranger Torque Splitter, NP-205 Transfer case, Heddman Hedders, Unilite dizzy mod, Headlight relay Mod., Wiper Delay Mod., 36" A/T's, 19 gal Aux fuel tank added.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-01-2004, 02:36 PM
vee-eight-fords vee-eight-fords is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 39
vee-eight-fords is starting off with a positive reputation.
It does not fire or fart whatsoever unless you spray in the starting fluid. I am getting 38psi of fuel pressure at the shrader valve while cranking, and 41ps when the key is on and not cranking. I am at a loss here.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-01-2004, 03:01 PM
lee lee is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 838
lee is starting off with a positive reputation.
Man, this is a tough one.

I am not very competent working on injected engines and I hope someone else will chime in.

Do you have a check engine light on? Do you know if your model truck has fault codes that can be read?

I once had a car that acted simular to this. It ended up being a sensor in the air filter box that air flow in the box caused a vain switch to move. The more air flow, the farther the vain moved. Anyway, the connector to this was corroded.

hum,
__________________
Lee

1970 F-250 Hi-boy 4x4, 3-inch body lift, 390FE bored .060 over, Edel RPM intake, GT profile cam, Holley 670CFM Street Avenger Carb, NP-435 four speed, Ranger Torque Splitter, NP-205 Transfer case, Heddman Hedders, Unilite dizzy mod, Headlight relay Mod., Wiper Delay Mod., 36" A/T's, 19 gal Aux fuel tank added.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-01-2004, 04:48 PM
EPNCSU2006's Avatar
EPNCSU2006 EPNCSU2006 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 9,235
EPNCSU2006 has a very good reputation on FTE.EPNCSU2006 has a very good reputation on FTE.EPNCSU2006 has a very good reputation on FTE.EPNCSU2006 has a very good reputation on FTE.
Do you have this problem on both gas tanks? If you have a single tank, have you verified that the in-tank pump is working? Does the truck run ok once you get it started, or does it just not start? I would try to pull the codes and see what comes up. If your '87 is like mine, the check engine light in the dash is not hooked up so you won't know that the computer has codes until you try to pull them. You'll have to use a volt meter or a small test light to pull the codes. If you don't know how to pull the codes, go to this website and click on "Getting Codes" on the left side of the screen - http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.htm
__________________
Eric

'87 F150 302 ZF 5 speed 4x2
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-01-2004, 06:45 PM
vee-eight-fords vee-eight-fords is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 39
vee-eight-fords is starting off with a positive reputation.
The truck starting once since it quit on me. During that time, it ran like a million bucks, with no problems whatsoever until I stalled it plowing my driveway, and that was it. When I put my ear to the fuel rail, it sounds like it may have some bubbles flowing through it. The rear tank has a significant leak in it so I never use it. I was never able to hear whether the in tank pumps worked or not since I have owned the truck. I hear nothing from them. The high pressure pump you can definitely hear. I am not getting any error codes. The truck does not fart in any way. If it was getting gas that was full of bubbles, wouldn't you at least expect it to fart/sputter or something? HELP!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-01-2004, 08:59 PM
vee-eight-fords vee-eight-fords is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 39
vee-eight-fords is starting off with a positive reputation.
Ok, I took a 3 foot piece of garden hose and stuffed it down the filler neck of each fuel tank. I hit the key and I hear absolutley nothing. Dead silence except the distant clicks of the fuel pump relay. Ok, this leads me to my next question. Will a truck refuse to start without the help of the low pressure tank mounted fuel pumps???? Me thinks that there might be some dead wiring down there as I hear nothing from both tanks. I believe that it would be quite a coincidence for 3 fuel pumps to die within one month. I think the next thing is to try giving the pumps a 12 volt jumper and see what we get. Is there an easy spot to tie into the fuel pump wiring without having to lower the tanks???? Does the 41psi of pressure in the Schrader valve consist of air pressure, more than fuel pressure??? Gas definitely squirts out of the Schrader valve when poked with a pen.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-01-2004, 09:51 PM
lee lee is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 838
lee is starting off with a positive reputation.
Ok, I did this once along time ago on a friends chebby truck with a possable in-tank pump problem. I pulled the fuel pump fuse out and jumpered 12VDC into the empty fuse holder. The only problem will be not knowing which side of the fuse holder is wired to the pump so you will have to try each side. This puts "joltage" right to the pump.

That's a good question you have concerning the 41psi at the rail. How it's generating that much pressure and not firing is beyond me. You could always disconnect the return fuel line at the fuel rail and then connect up a piece of hose going to a bucket. Then turn the key on and there should be a strong flow of fuel. At least this would confirm fuel is in the rail.
__________________
Lee

1970 F-250 Hi-boy 4x4, 3-inch body lift, 390FE bored .060 over, Edel RPM intake, GT profile cam, Holley 670CFM Street Avenger Carb, NP-435 four speed, Ranger Torque Splitter, NP-205 Transfer case, Heddman Hedders, Unilite dizzy mod, Headlight relay Mod., Wiper Delay Mod., 36" A/T's, 19 gal Aux fuel tank added.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-02-2004, 02:17 AM
archangel archangel is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Joliet, Illinois
Posts: 1,236
archangel is starting off with a positive reputation.
If you get that much pressure at the rail, I would think the injectors are not firing.

And you should hear the in tank pumps run without shoving a hose in the tank, just slide underneath and have the ignition cycled and listen for the 2 second buzz at each tank.

I think if it's an EFI problem, you should check it for codes first off as the solution might be right there!
__________________
Had to sell the Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
It had a verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell then shutting it down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors still on I got 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-02-2004, 08:56 PM
vee-eight-fords vee-eight-fords is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 39
vee-eight-fords is starting off with a positive reputation.
UPDATE::::: I got the old girl running again. I ran a jumper wire to the front in-tank pump (red positive, orange negative), reset the computer, and she fired right up. The wiring in this truck seems to be full of gremlins so I ended up wiring both pumps to the ignition so when the key is on, the pumps are on. This truck has 265,000+ hard miles on her, and she is back in business, ready to plow for another 17 years. Thanks to everyone for their insight. This newbie really appreciates it. Thanks again.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-02-2004, 09:03 PM
lee lee is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 838
lee is starting off with a positive reputation.
Hey that's great news!

Congrat's and welcome to the forum.

Take care,
__________________
Lee

1970 F-250 Hi-boy 4x4, 3-inch body lift, 390FE bored .060 over, Edel RPM intake, GT profile cam, Holley 670CFM Street Avenger Carb, NP-435 four speed, Ranger Torque Splitter, NP-205 Transfer case, Heddman Hedders, Unilite dizzy mod, Headlight relay Mod., Wiper Delay Mod., 36" A/T's, 19 gal Aux fuel tank added.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-02-2004, 11:21 PM
EPNCSU2006's Avatar
EPNCSU2006 EPNCSU2006 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 9,235
EPNCSU2006 has a very good reputation on FTE.EPNCSU2006 has a very good reputation on FTE.EPNCSU2006 has a very good reputation on FTE.EPNCSU2006 has a very good reputation on FTE.
Be careful straight wiring them like that. Should you ever get in a wreck and burst fuel lines, the pumps would not shut off and would create a fire hazard. When you have time, after plowing season I guess, I would re-wire the factory system, with the relay and the inertia switch inline.
__________________
Eric

'87 F150 302 ZF 5 speed 4x2
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-03-2004, 01:19 AM
archangel archangel is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Joliet, Illinois
Posts: 1,236
archangel is starting off with a positive reputation.
Also having both pumps running at the same time is not good either.

Hook up two toggle switches to the output wire from the enertia switch (hot all the time on most if not all) so it will cut off in an accident and you can choose which on is on.
Also, if both of the pump switches are off, no one can drive off in it!
__________________
Had to sell the Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
It had a verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell then shutting it down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors still on I got 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-03-2004, 05:41 AM
vee-eight-fords vee-eight-fords is offline
Freshman User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 39
vee-eight-fords is starting off with a positive reputation.
Rear tank is never in use. It has a substantial hole in it.

I hard wired the pumps (front tank and high pressure) as a test only. I will be routing the wires like it was from the factory when it is light out.

I just wanted to see if getting the front tank pump running would solve my problems.

Thanks to all for the help. I appreciate it!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2004, 05:41 AM
 
 
 
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
periodic spark firedawgs 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 2 07-28-2014 11:22 PM
1990 f150 help kyacklich 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 4 01-13-2014 09:27 PM
Please help jcurti 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 2 09-22-2013 02:42 AM
Please Help! 1992 F-250 Wont Run simmonds1970 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 15 02-24-2012 11:44 PM
Fixed everything, truck still runs like crap!!! DOHC330MustangGT 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 24 06-23-2005 10:09 AM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Misc. > Fuel Injection, Carburetion & Fuel System

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


Participate In The Forums

Create new posts and participate in discussions. It's free!

Sign Up »





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup