Ford vs The CompetitionTechnical discussion and comparison ONLY. Trolls will not be tolerated.
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For one, the 5.9 Cummings is a heavy duty industrial diesel engine, the PSD is a light duty automotive engine.
The 5.9 very comparible in street form as far as performance. However, it has proved that it can be tuned to smoke a lot of performance sports cars which the PSD light duty engine it is not capable of handing the level of performance the cummings can generate.
Cummings is a pure diesel engine.
Builds it's peak HP and Tq at a much lower RPM than either Ford or GM. (According to the Ford 5.4 boys that along makes it king)
Another thing, I6 vs V8. 25% less moving parts.
Don't get me wrong, for what they do they are both adequate and very capitable.
Why don't you enlighten us on your opinions?
My dad has 96 5.9 that has been dynoed at 303 HP and 686 ft lbs at the rear wheels.
I would say the T444E is also a heavy duty inductrial engine, Many international dump trucks, school buses, straight trucks and fords use them, I would say the only place the cummins is and the cornbinder isnt is lobster boats and construction equipment, we have a case wheel loader at work with a 5.9 in it, worked to death and its no fun to start in 25 degree weather , im not sure it has a grid heater like a dodge does tho.....i hold it toe boards and get it cranking and sometimes it goes, when it dont give the ether button a few pushes.........once it starts knocking it may be running under its own power, hold'er down till it builds full rpms then feather it to keep it alive till it will idle
The T444E is offered in two axle trucks. As a single unit straight truck the practical and legal limit for weight carrying capacity is 35,000 Lb. A vehicle with 52,000 to 65,000 Lb. rating would have to be a three axle straight truck or a two axle tractor with semi- trailer. The truck model that the T444E is offered in is also available in a tractor configuration. When the two axle tractor is coupled to a tandem axle trailer the GCW could range up to 65,000 Lb. There are no published restrictions in the International system advising against using the T444E as a tractor, an order can be specified with the engine in a tractor and customers have purchased them. So, the bottom line is the T444E is actually approved, and customer applied, in ratings up to 65,000 Lb.
Claim: Cummins has built 1.7 million 6B engines. Numbers game alert! What they're counting here is all B family history including four cylinder engines and non-highway applications such as farm and industrial equipment. When the total volume of six cylinder B family engines used in automotive applications, including the pickup truck market, is considered their volume number is more like 800,000. And that's for the previous B family. The ISB is, by their own description, a significantly new product. As for the T444E; counting engines sold in the on-highway automotive use category, the production volume exceeds 740,000 for the existing continuing product.
You do know that the 7.3 is a converted International harvester industrial Gas engine, right? Don't believe, me look it up. I read it in a truck book at Barnes and noble. 443 or some odd cid gasoline engine, but it's internals are strong enough to be come a diesel.
as to the numbers game thing, It really doesn't make sense. They said 6B engines, which means 6 cyl B series engines to me.
2003 F250 SD 4X4 5.4L 4:10 Arizona Beige
1987 Mustang GT (sold)
09 Challenger RT
07 BMW 328Xi E92
A bunch of motorcycles and a Quad.
Innuendo: Cummins refers to the T444E as having a gasoline engine heritage. Huh?! Where does this come from? There is no part, process, displacement, or machining operation in the T444E that is common to any gasoline engine International ever built. The only commonality is that the T444E is manufactured under the same roof of the Indianapolis plant where the finest gasoline engines used in the medium truck market were once made.
Only thing the T444E and Cat 3208 have in common is that they are a medium duty V8
Originally posted by rancherman84 something else they have in common,the ih and cat both use the heui style injector but the cat uses a third rocker arm to operate the injector while ih uses oil pressure from a high pressure pump.
Thats about the same thing that I have heard. I think that the 7.3 or nearly any diesel is superior to the 3208. They were a boat anchor.
Originally posted by MJD I have heard that a 7.3 is very similar to a 3208 Cat. Has anyone heard anything about this?
Yes it is i had a 3208 cat ran strong too. A 3208 is a 7.2L with 210hp and very high in tourqe. I dont rember the tourqe rating on it. I had it in a 1980 GMC Brigader sevice truck. Could go down the highway with 33,000 pounds doing 67mph. Not bad for that bone but its gone now.
every manufacurer built a boat anchor at one time or another.i am ford and navistar all the way but you couldnt give me a 351m or 400m gas motor.i had an 84 f250 with a 300 6cyl and loved it 300,000+ miles until swapped up to my 92 f250 diesel and love it to.kinda off the subject but it is all opinion on which motor is a boat anchor or not,the cummins is not a boat anchor by any means,but that duramax, well i dont know , aluminum heads on a diesel,come on!
you may have misunderstood me. I meant to say that the Catepillar 3208 was a boat anchor. Their average overhaul intervals were 1000 hrs or less. I personally think that Duramaxes are a great motor. I am not too keen on the aluminum cylinder heads either, but so far there have not been any signifigant issues with them. Time will tell.
Originally posted by Quaddak For one, the 5.9 Cummings is a heavy duty industrial diesel engine, the PSD is a light duty automotive engine.
Wrong again. The 6.0L PSD (VT-365) was in International Medium Duty trucks 2 years prior to being introduced in the Ford SD lineup.
I talked with an International engineer at a trade show this past fall, he showed me the internals on a cut-away block side by side, the 6.0L is a heavier built engine than the 7.3L, he said the 7.3L was impossible to clean up for emissions and that was the reason behind the 6.0L being developed. The 6.0L has a beefier crank and rods than the 7.3L. Also, the 6.0L has a unitary design in the lower end, it is VERY stout. He said it does lack power in the larger truck applications, such as tandem axle trucks, but for most medium duty applications, he said the 6.0L was an improvement over the 7.3L. He drove a '03 F-350 6.0L pulling the 18,000 lb. show trailer from Ft. Wayne to Detroit, to Birmingham, to Louisville, where the show was at that I went to. He said even though it was over the weight ratings of the truck, it handled it great.
I asked him about the 6.0L bugs, this is what he had to say: The split-shot injectors are the primary reason for the problems. The '04 engines will have the non-split shot injectors, which will increase noise, but will make the engines more reliable and make the power that is claimed.
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