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  #166  
Old 05-05-2014, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lubbockguy1979 View Post
The funny thing is international has a straight 6 that is the same displacement as the cummings and its capible of alot more power out of the box. Reason they aremt popular? They werent offered in a pickup and iirc the truck pulling classes limit the engine to what was in a production truck. Which puts it in a unlimited class where other larger engines like the dt466 would swallow them up
HAD, had, no more.
Wish they still made the dt360, but I guess they didn't see the market.
I suppose the dt466's and up covered the bigger trucks, and I guess the smaller trucks they must have though the v8's were a better bet.
IMHO the wet sleeve design is a huge advantage over the cummins, and I don't doubt that if ford used dt360's in all the f250's and larger, they would have sold even more than they did with 7.3's in them.

Maybe instead of having 7.3's in all the pickups, f250 - 550, and the cummins in the f650+, they should have kept the f250 with the 7.3, and dt360's in the f350 + trucks. I bet that would have worked out a lot better.
That way you could have an engine choice in the pickups, and they'd still only have 2 diesel options.

A cool thing about the dt360 is that it's got an even stronger stroke to bore ratio than the cummins, so TQ is super high compared to HP, I believe it was 2.5 times or so.

I want to put a dt360 or dt466 in an f350.
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  #167  
Old 05-05-2014, 10:24 PM
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I would love to have one in a superduty. A guy on the nation put together a dt360 with twins in his truck and it is a towing monster. Ford in the early 80's pushed navistar for a v8 motor instead of a i6. They wanted a wider powerband out of the motor and also thought that the truck buyers would see the i-6 diesel option as a step down from a large cubic inch v8. So a large cubic in diesel was used. It wasnt untill they put a turbo on them that they staryed to dominate the heavyduty pick up class.
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  #168  
Old 05-05-2014, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lubbockguy1979 View Post
I would love to have one in a superduty. A guy on the nation put together a dt360 with twins in his truck and it is a towing monster. Ford in the early 80's pushed navistar for a v8 motor instead of a i6. They wanted a wider powerband out of the motor and also thought that the truck buyers would see the i-6 diesel option as a step down from a large cubic inch v8. So a large cubic in diesel was used. It wasnt untill they put a turbo on them that they staryed to dominate the heavyduty pick up class.
Yes thats what I heard; back in the day, the I6 engine had peaky TQ, and sounded like tractors.
Of course now with electronic engines, an I6 or V8 can have whatever TQ curve you program into it.

I wanted to use a 2008-2010 f350, but it might be a lot easier to do a 03-07 with a blown 6.0, which pop up from time to time.
I was going to do a dt466, but the oil pan was an issue, didn't want a massive poor MPG truck sitting up in the air.... so thought maybe a dt466 with custom oil pan, or dry sump.
Also wanted to use bigger axles and 6 speed manual trans.

There is a guy down the road with a running dt360 and 6 speed trans bolted on, and it's been tempting me lately. The dt360's fit rather well, and you can still get decent power out of them. I think "pipewhiner" built a 600 hp one, which is nothing to laugh at cause it probably has 1400 ft/lbs of TQ.
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  #169  
Old 05-06-2014, 12:18 AM
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Whem I lived in san antonio a couple of years back truck source diesel had a superduty on rockwell axles with a dt466. It had at least 44 inch tires probably larger. They had issues breaking axles shafts in the truck when they did burn outs
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  #170  
Old 05-06-2014, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lubbockguy1979 View Post
Whem I lived in san antonio a couple of years back truck source diesel had a superduty on rockwell axles with a dt466. It had at least 44 inch tires probably larger. They had issues breaking axles shafts in the truck when they did burn outs
I believe it, thats the problem with DT engines.
If you're a diesel addict, or enthusiast, you most likely always want more more more more power.
A DT engine is capable of making enough power that you'd spend the rest of your life replacing driveline parts.
Thats why I'm aiming somewhere 400 - 600 hp. Nothing crazy.
Thats probably already into the 1300 - 1500 ft/lbs range.

I don't have money to build a 2500 HP truck with all custom 1-off parts, it would take a fortune to make it daily driver friendly and reliable.
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  #171  
Old 05-06-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by iggybob44 View Post
Actually even the word "hype" is silly......hype suggests its not real.....the original first and early second Gens had 160 Hp, not 190 stock. And logically since these engines might well be 20-25 years old, its hardly a shock that some of these have racked up 500,000+ miles...........Ive got 103,000 miles on my 07 5.9, the only thing ive had fail was a water pump froze up at around 85,000 miles, tossed the serpentine belt. I shut 'er off, called AAA, had it towed to the dealership. I know plenty of people who have gone 200,000+ plus with the 24V and HO 5.9's without any big issues
Interesting my water pump failed right about the same time. I didn't buy the truck because it was a Dodge. I bought the truck for the engine that was in it. I have worked on the V903 series of Cummings and found it to be an excellent engine. When I bought my 2006 I had heard that Ford and International were fighting on warranty claims, thats what drove me away from Ford. I knew the 7.3 was a solid engine in the Ford trucks, but the newer ones were having problems. Chevy was coming out with the Duramax and I didn't want to deal with a new engine, and it's problem that would arise.
I have 6.0L in my 2001 F550 Wildland Fire truck and have never had an issue, other than the radiator system getting clogged up with dirt that was easily fixed with a pressure washer. I'm not a fan of automatics, have always liked standard transmissions.

So I guess what I'm saying it all truck makers have made the wise decision to purchase their truck engines from reliable diesel companies. These engine manufactures with years of research and dollars spent I think have made some great engines. Yes, after making some mistakes, but corrected and moved forward with improved designs.

Make is a choice, diesel is in the blood.
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  #172  
Old 05-06-2014, 03:22 PM
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Id love tons of power but it gets expensive. For me I want the most reliable power I can get in a solid truck. My 6.0 experiemce has been good so far and more favorible that my dodge experience since I have the same model year dodge as a work truck as my personal truck. The fuel mpg isnt better first off and the transmission in the dodge leave me worried and wanting a torque shift that my truck has or a manual. Neither truck has has engine problems in the 100 k on the powerstroke only an alternator. The dodge is at 130k with unit bearing failures and electrical issues as well as a new ac compressor. Not really all that uncommon I dont think
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  #173  
Old 06-01-2014, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkland View Post
I wanted to use a 2008-2010 f350, but it might be a lot easier to do a 03-07 with a blown 6.0, which pop up from time to time.
I was going to do a dt466, but the oil pan was an issue, didn't want a massive poor MPG truck sitting up in the air.... so thought maybe a dt466 with custom oil pan, or dry sump.
Also wanted to use bigger axles and 6 speed manual trans.
The DT466 in our 4 door international that weighs 11,000 lbs empty gets 14 -15 mpg running 70 to 80 MPH. It turns about 1600 RPM at 70 MPH. That was with the timing at 14*. I haven't been able to try it since I turned up the pump and bumped the timing as the tranny is now shot. Imagine that.
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Based on everything I've here in Fte, websites, and articles, a 12-valve Cummins is the no-brainer choice.
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Ah, yes, the 460 phenomena, once Al Gore invented the internet the 460 found a place it could get double digit fuel economy.
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  #174  
Old 11-22-2014, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 78_79ford View Post
i would say that the main problem with the cummins is the truck it's put into, the dodge heavy-duty pick-ups. I've personally known more dodge pick-ups with problems than i did with ford pick-ups. why do you think Ford continues to outsell the competition in the fullsize truck market? the Super duty is really a through and through heavy hauler and tough truck. I've always been a Ford guy, my dad is Ford guy, his dad and my mom's dad are Ford guys and they'll tell you why they like Ford trucks. hell my brother worked for different mines in Nevada, and he says that all they used for work trucks were Fords becuase they knew that they were the best, he's not even that much of a Ford guy, but he gives credit where it is due, he even says that the people he worked with didn't even like Fords but they pretty much all said that they wouldn't use anything else to haul stuff. Dodges really only have one heavy duty built thing in their truck, the cummins, otherwise they are just luxury trucks with nice seats and chrome and power, same with Chevy pick-ups, they got power and the duramax, and luxury but nothing really much else, they are alot of fluff. Furthermore, Ford doesnt make a medium duty frame and front end and call the truck a superduty, but Dodge and Chevy both build a heavy duty pickup around a medium duty frame and front-end.
What is odd in this is that I have bent my frame, three others I know have bent theirs as well. All while simply backing down a boat ramp at a slight angle from the top. Wasn't apparent until I jumped out and my door would not close. A few years later I was driving a Dodge 2500 and some knuckle head pulled out in front of me. His F250 sheared at the firewall and the entire front end of his truck came to rest in a front yard, two houses down the street (engine and tranny included). Every truck has it's use and it's attractors / detractors but something to keep in mind is that Dodge build one frame strong enough to be used in both the 2500 and 3500. The difference in the 2500/3500 is a slightly beefier suspension (offset by adding bags to the 2500) and the 1 ton vs 3/4 ton axels. To my knowledge, Ford is the only one with known frame issues across a few truck lines. We wont mention Toyota . While on the topic you should look up some news about both Ford and Chevy inflating their capabilities by subtracting thing like the weight of all optional components from the towing capacity. Ford uses an in house system as opposed to the SAE J2807 standard. Ford, Ram in heavy-duty towing spat - Autoblog

GM Joins Ford in Gaming Pickup-Truck Payload Ratings ? News ?*Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

Don't get me wrong though. I love my Ford. More so because I work out of my truck and you cannot beat the cockpit of a Ford.
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  #175  
Old 11-22-2014, 10:23 AM
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something to keep in mind is that Dodge build one frame strong enough to be used in both the 2500 and 3500. The difference in the 2500/3500 is a slightly beefier suspension (offset by adding bags to the 2500) and the 1 ton vs 3/4 ton axels. To my knowledge, Ford is the only one with known frame issues across a few truck lines.
the only difference between a F-250 and a F-350 diesel is the front springs and rear axle block. F-250 gets a 2 inch rear block, F-350 gets a 4 inch rear block

the only fords i have ever come across "with known frame issues" is the 87 to 96 F-150 and the E-150 vans.
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  #176  
Old 11-22-2014, 02:49 PM
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the only difference between a F-250 and a F-350 diesel is the front springs and rear axle block. F-250 gets a 2 inch rear block, F-350 gets a 4 inch rear block

the only fords i have ever come across "with known frame issues" is the 87 to 96 F-150 and the E-150
vans.
I had a strong hunch Ford had done the same with their frames. I had heard that there was a potential weak area just aft of the rear cab mount. From some of the things I'm reading I've learned that the frames are experiencing some deformation of certain mounting holes. After digging in to it allot last night the only documented cases I'm really finding are with the Raptors. The cause for me tweaked frame was never found and it was a rather easy body shop fix. They literally just twisted it back.
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  #177  
Old 11-22-2014, 03:18 PM
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ford has been "doing the same with their frames" since at least 1983 when they first offered a diesel engine in the F-250 and F-350.
and on a side note, the diesel and 460 trucks used the same frame.
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  #178  
Old 11-22-2014, 03:45 PM
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ford has been "doing the same with their frames" since at least 1983 when they first offered a diesel engine in the F-250 and F-350.
and on a side note, the diesel and 460 trucks used the same frame.
Ah.. I had no idea. I'm fairly new to Ford ownership so I'm still learning the ins and outs of them.
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  #179  
Old 11-23-2014, 03:43 AM
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Ford has the strongest frames of the bunch.
Theres a reason a ford weighs more than other trucks, and it isn't the plastic panels in the cab.
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  #180  
Old 11-23-2014, 03:44 AM
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In fact a buddy just got hit by a car in the front of his dodge, frame and cab bent, truck is finished. Total write off.

Doesn't anyone remember several years ago?
The big 3 went head to head in 20MPH head on collision tests into a cement barrier?
Ford and GM were bending bumpers and dropping radiators, dodge trucks were destroying the frame and cab, then they dropped out of further testing.
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