Well if anyone has been reading, I am in the slow process of doing a cam swap/ porting heads, slowly getting everything together.

It came to mind after realizing that I would need new springs, I might need to find out if I can use the stock retainers.

I call comp and well, I asked, can I use the stock retainers with the 972-16 springs? The first person I talked too said, "I don't think so, I am not sure." this was the tech line So I call back, the next person says, "I wouldn't use the stock retainers." Okay another answer that answers, nothing. I then stated, "on your website regarding springs, it specifically states:

It is important for new springs to take a heat set. Never abuse or run the engine at high RPM when the springs are new. Upon initial start-up, limit RPM to 1500 to 2000 until the temperature has reached operating levels. Shut off the engine and allow the springs to cool to room temperature. This usually will eliminate early breakage and prolong spring life. After the spring has been “broken-in”, it is common for it to lose a slight amount of pressure. Once this initial pressure loss occurs, the spring pressure should remain constant until the spring becomes overstressed. Then the springs must either be replaced or shimmed to the correct pressure."

So I asked, " should I install and break the springs in first before I do the cam?" The response," that info is for the cam not the springs." Okay is it wrong of me to be a bit confused as in the info I read and the answers I am getting? I love autoparts, everyone has an answer but noone knows for sure.

So has anyone used comp springs #972-16, and were you able to successfully use the stock retainers? Thanks, later

 

I can't answer if the stock retainers will work or not. If you are running a cam that requires heavier spring pressure than stock then I would say get steel one piece retainers.

The two piece exhaust retainers have been known to come apart when running them with heavier springs.

 

Appreciate it RTM. Do you have any thought on trick flow springs? Their claimed specs are very close, almost identical to comps springs but they are $20 +/- cheaper, and trick flow is well liked by a lot of folks.


I got a price on a K kit and it is the same as if I pieced comps components together myself, go figure. So I figured if I can save a buck or two and use alternate quality parts, then why not right? Any thoughts? Later

 

for what it's worth I recently put in a set of crane springs they didn't send any warnings about break in and I ran them as normal with the stock retainers -NO problem - perhaps I was luck ignorance is bliss.

 

I run trick flow heads on my 65 mustang and love them. I would buy the trick flow springs. Some times paying for a name is all your doing.

 

daerhldgs2

Thanks, I was looking into using the crane as well. Glad they worked out for you, actually the person I spoke with said that running the springs at normal rpms and use for a short period would be the best break in, as long as the rpm's didn't exceed 3000 or so. So maybe you did the right thing after all. later


RTM

YOU have a point about paying for the name. My problem is the cam I plan to use, the comp XE, everyone loves, but valve float is almost inevitable, if the springs aren't just so, according to everyone that I ever spoke to about the use of the comp cam. So I don't know, I guess I won't know until I try it, huh? I might just consider using the trick flow after all, the price is right. Thanks for the response. later





I found out that I could use the stock retainers, the only thing is I would need to get some intake retainers to use on the exhaust side, that way the installed height would work out right. So I figure, if I am gonna get 8 retainers, why not go ahead and get 16 new ones and be done with it. Just a thought I guess, later

 

If the springs have the same or very close to the same specs you will be fine. The lb rating of the spring that is. I hve used different brand springs with different brand cams. The manufacture will tell you that you have to use their stuff. They will more than likely never give you the go ahead to run some one elses components. Thats taking money away from there pocket.

I built a set of 289 heads a long time ago. I bought chevy valves, chevy springs and chevy roller rockers from different swap meets and pieced together a very nice set of 289 heads. I drove that car for a long time and even made two trips from Cleveland Ohio to SC. The motor was pretty built as well. Anyway my point is don't get to hung up on a brand name.

 

Tick Flow springs are excellent, You'd probably be better off with those. Sometimes Comp Cams stuff is the same quality as a stock replacement, it's just built to different specs.

As for retainers, the only time you MUST use different ones is when you change the diameter of the spring. Hydraulic roller cams use a dual spring, flat tappets use a single spring (but you can get away with a single spring and hyd. roller cam as long as it supplies enough pressure, but that's an ancient Chinese secret). If you have the spring seats machined to accept larger springs, and use larger springs, then obviously you'll need a retainer to match, but this will become brutally obvious when you're assembling the heads. TK

 

torqueking


See you changed your avatar, I like the black label society song with ozzy, I don't recall the name of the song though.

Maybe you can straighten this out, a fellow mentioned I would need to change the exhaust retainers to intake, in order to get correct installed height, was that comment directed towards a roller setup? Because I told him the springs I was using, and thought he knew they were single. Lemme know.

BTW, I put some thought into your suggestion of using a higher stall converter. I am in the process of getting one, or at least found one I find "cost effective" and almost ready to plop the money down for it. I don't let go of money so easily . I am probably gonna home port the heads after the converter, as much as I want that lopey idle I at a draw, cam or heads? Any thoughts, the heads ported would probably net 15hp and the cam would probably do the same, and I would get that nice idle I am after. In reality doing both would be the answer, but its either one or the other. Since I can't do them at the same time, it almost makes sense doing the heads first, it would be easier to change the springs when they are off, in my case. Lemme know something, later

 

jwtaylor,

I work for a large OEM valvespring manufacturer. We also make springs for Comp, and TrickFlow. The springs do not need to be broken in. The springs DO lose a little load the first time they are heated and pressed solid. BUT we do that here at the plant!
Otherwise you would get 5 different load measurements the first 5 times you checked load on a scale. Is doesnt do anythng for the life of the spring though.

Also, just my opinion, stick with one company for the cam and springs. They have done the research (if they are a decent company) and know what combos work.

That Comp tech line sounds scary though

Good Luck!

 

It depends on what you want to do.

(1) make more power: Your most cost-effective upgrade is going to be porting the heads, for three reasons. The first is that by upgrading the cam, you are not really correcting the flow deficiencies in the stock heads, just changing the "timing" of the flow. This will still gain a little power without a doubt, but it will not be as helpful as some very skillful porting work. The second reason is that you cannot upgrade the cam without changing the valvesprings, or at least you can't without having a serious valve float problem even at normal acceleration speeds. Although it is possible, and NHRA crews do it all the time in minutes, it is certainly not worth it to change springs and retainers on an engine with the heads on, and most especially if you're planning on taking the heads off in the near future anyway. You'll have to buy a special fitting for your air compressor that screws into the spark plug hole and keep air pressure inside the chamber, thus keeping the valve from falling in. If you mess it up, and a valve falls in, then you're going to have to pull the head off anyway to retrieve it. The third reason is that you can take your heads off, port them, and go ahead and install your Trick Flow springs, and re-install the heads with new springs on the motor with your stock cam in it. It does no harm to run stiffer springs on a stock cam, it's just a tad more drag on the engine to turn.

(2) Go faster: If you actually want to go faster rather than just make more power, you should do the higher stalling converter. A higher stalling converter slips more, thus generating a higher torque to the input shaft. This will move the vehicle much faster with a totally stock engine than your ported/polished heads and a Comp XE cam with a stock converter will.

As for your other question, RTM answered it. The exhaust retainers are 2-piece, and that gives them different spring height characteristics. Ford accounted for this when they designed the cam for your stock engine. Aftermarket companies are going to assume that you're using all 16 of the same retainer, unless otherwise noted. They're designed to give a certain installed height using a typical intake retainer. Your idea of buying 16 new intake retainers will be perfect.

In summary, I agree with your idea to remove and port the heads first, and while you've got them on your workbench, make sure to install the new springs. This way when you go to install the cam, all you have to do is pop off the timing cover, valve covers, and whatever else you need to make room in front of it to stick the cam in.

BTW, the name of Black Label Society song is "Stillborn". The video was directed by Rob Zombie, so it's very disturbing, and wierd, but cool at the same time. TK

 

torqueking

yeah thats it "stillborn", haven't seen the video and probably never will, still like the song.

Yeah I have pretty much came to the conclusion you have, I am gonna go with the cam and port the heads. More likely than not just the cam now, reason being, the grinder, controller, bits, etc. add up real fast $$ wise. Almost to the point of getting some rebuilt D0's would be priced similarly, so I am gonna see what happens with either option.

I can't focus, I can start at deciding between two cams, and end up justifying the rebuild of the tranny and engine, or saying screw it I don't need any of it. I think for now I am gonna get the cam and springs, and if I can find someone with a compressor to borrow, then I will change the springs and throw the cam in, if not, I will wait until I replace or port the heads. I will probably wait and do the converter with the tranny, while its not a big deal and I have done it a few times, its a pain to remove the tranny by myself and I am in no hurry, after much thought, when I do remove it, I am gonna make it count with a rebuilt and converter. Appreciate your input, later