removing emissions- lowdown

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Old 12-21-2003, 09:05 AM
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removing emissions- lowdown

Let me clear a few things up here.

I have NEVER, EVER seen or heard of ANYONE who is the sole owner of a vehicle, being charged with a criminal act by the law, for removing an emission device, like an EGR or Cat. Converter.

The STATE laws say a repair garage cannot remove them. The FEDERAL laws say a individual owner should not remove them. The FEDERAL laws ARE NOT ENFORCED. In effect, they have no teeth.

I HAVE heard of repair garages in CALIFORNIA being charged for removing HUNDREDS of emissions controls from many vehicles- by the State of California. That state is #1 in registered vehicles and drivers. It has a MAJOR pollution smog problem in its major cities. It's emission laws are the strictest in the country, requiring special "California" equipment for the cars to be sold there.

THAT IS NOT THE CASE FOR THE ENTIRE REST OF THE COUNTRY. We DO NOT have the same laws state to state, and the internet is for EVERYONE who chooses to pay the server fee every month, not just for California people. Some may choose to NOT COMPLY to laws that are not enforced. Who would pay income tax, if there were no consequences ??

REMEMBER, cars and trucks made before 1973, HAD NO EGR VALVES. Cars and trucks made before 1975, HAD NO CAT CONVERTERS. If someone puts an older engine in a newer truck, is he supposed to put an EGR on it ?? NO. If someone puts a newer engine in an older truck, must he put an EGR on it ?? NO. If you live in a region with no emission laws or testing required (I do), and you want your truck to run better, the choice is YOURS. I can almost guarantee 100%, you won't have any "LEGAL" problems. The government has better things to do, than prosecute some hot rodder for plugging the EGR on his truck, really...you are simply returning the engine to a pre-1973 state of tune.

NEXT- all vehicles made for use overseas in JAPAN, ASIA, EUROPE, do not have emission controls. They also still run leaded gas over there. Keep that in mind.

Finally, those emission controls are put there because the government forced the issue on the auto manufacturers. When it comes to the end user (the vehicle owner), the law kind of turns its head, and has a don't ask/don't tell attitude.

Do what YOU feel is right. I've been disconnecting my emission stuff for 20-some years now. My 2 cars and truck all have disconnected EGR's, but my cars both have working Cat. Converters- for now. THAT'S MY CHOICE- I own the cars, PLEASE DON'T TELL ME HOW TO RUN THEM- you have no legal authority to do so. I'm merely passing on my tuning tips- not forcing them on anyone.
 
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Old 12-21-2003, 10:16 AM
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I found this quote on the following link, so I am not alone or in the "minority" with this line of thinking:

http://www.projectbronco.com/Technic...the_rumors.htm


"All "M" block engines were loaded down with primitive emission controls -- Many people have put down the "M" block engines because they are in fact loaded down with emission controls. But guess what? So was every other 78 & 79 engine, regardless of who made it! Admittedly, the "M" block had some exhaust gas recirculation features built in to the intake manifold, but this was done to eliminate all of the air and exhaust tubes that had to be added externally to the older 302/351Ws and 429/460 engines. However, if you are the kind of person that still gets upset just knowing they are there, then simply replace the factory 2V manifold with a non-EGR unit. Problem solved."
 

Last edited by cantedvalveFord; 12-21-2003 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 12-21-2003, 10:24 AM
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Here's another quote from another 351M/400 fan

http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/perf/perf02a.html

"Overlean fuel/air mixture
This is a problem that is common to almost all carbureted vehicles made in the 1970s. It originated with early emission control systems.

To reduce emissions of carbon monoxide (CO) and unburned hydrocarbon (HC) molecules in exhaust gas, the obvious solution is to lean the fuel/air mixture. To a point, leaning the fuel/air mixture produces more complete combustion, which reduces both CO and HC emissions. There is, however, a problem side-effect of lean fuel/air mixtures — as the mixture gets leaner (i.e., more air and less fuel), the combustion temperature rises.

Eventually, when combustion temperature exceeds about 2500° Farenheit, the nitrogen in the air starts burning and producing another undesireable pollutant in the exhaust gas, oxides of nitrogen (NOx). To solve this problem, the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system was developed.

EGR reduces the combustion temperature by introducing an “inert” gas in the chamber, along with the fuel/air intake charge. The inert gas is, of course, exhaust gas. Depleted of its oxygen by prior combustion, it is essentially inert when re-introduced to the combustion process.

The whole purpose of EGR is to allow an excessively lean fuel/air mixture (which reduces CO and HC emissions) without producing more NOx emissions."
 
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Old 12-21-2003, 10:27 AM
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It becomes obvious what happened with EGR's. The engineers leaned the fuel mixture out to reduce emissions, to comply with emissions laws put on the manufacturers. But that then created more NOX due to the leaner, hotter burning mixture. So they then band-aided that new problem with the EGR valve.

And we end up with this stuff on our cars since 1973.
 
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Old 12-21-2003, 10:31 AM
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Here's one more:


http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/perf/perf03.html

"Emissions-Legal Performance

A major issue for many M-block owners is emissions legality. This is particularly true in California, but there are many other locales with some kind of emissions testing.

Many performance enhancements for the M-block are not technically emissions-legal, and the legality of some enhancements varies from one locale to another.

I strongly recommend that you do the research necessary to understand all the details of the regulations that apply to your vehicle in your locale. That's the only way to know exactly what you can and can't do to improve your engine's performance."
 
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Old 12-21-2003, 10:42 AM
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Last one, read between the lines:

http://www.autosite.com/garage/repairqa/ques081.asp

"Question:

Can I get into trouble if I disconnect any of the emission controls on my engine?

Answer:

Yes, if you get caught. No, if you don't.

But if you live in an area that requires periodic emissions testing, you probably won't get past an emissions check with missing or disconnected emission controls.
WARNING: Federal law makes it illegal for ANYONE to tamper with, disconnect, remove or otherwise render inoperative ANY emissions-related control device. The Environmental Protection Agency and most states have actually been rather lax about enforcing this rule on motorists, but they haven't hesitated to nail professional service facilities that have been guilty of tampering.

The federal anti-tampering law does not, however, apply to race cars that are not operated on the street, other full-time off-road vehicles, show cars that are not street driven, or vehicles not factory equipped with emission controls (most 1967 and earlier vehicles). So that exempts all antique cars, and most classic cars and muscle cars."
 
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Old 12-21-2003, 01:01 PM
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CVF-

It took you 6 posts to say the same thing that I and several others have been saying all along.

Is it illegal for someone to tamper with or disconnect their emissions control devices? Yes

Will you get caught? Probably not

Will you get a significant performance boost out of disconnecting your emissions control devices on a 351M/400? Again...probably not

You've made you point and you need to take a hint from the previous locked threads.
 
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