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  #1  
Old 12-20-2003, 09:15 AM
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Question 460 stock horsepower

I have heard that the stock pre 1973 lincoln 460's had higher output than the 73 and later. (horsepower wise). Does anyone have clarification of this. I have a 68 block with 70 heads ready for rebuild, and get dropped in my 74 f250 4x4. What were the differences through the years that lowered the horsepower in the later models??

Last edited by olfordsnstone; 12-20-2003 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 12-20-2003, 12:35 PM
Mil1ion Mil1ion is offline
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This post is best in the 385 series engine forum because it is not 73-79 specific.

You will need to post the casting numbers off the heads.
The block should be C9VE-6015-B

Watch for D0OE for the heads.
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Old 12-20-2003, 11:19 PM
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actually, D0VE heads. The D 0 (Zero) indicates the year, ie D=1970's and 0 (zero = which year of the seventies. VE I believe indicates Lincoln (I think) The big question I'm after is not the identifiers, but regarding a statement I heard about the earlier vs later model 460's and what ford did to these engines to lower the horsepower. Above, please note the pre vs post 1973 engines horsepower. I assume the reason would be detuning for smog, but what did they do to accomplish this? Cam, Heads, Pistons? Anyone?????
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Old 12-21-2003, 12:43 AM
Mil1ion Mil1ion is offline
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D0VE .....That's a given.

Not everyone knows that the D0OE are the premier heads from 1970.

Yes the L is for Lincoln> Ford/Mercury Desigined the 429 for the Lincoln that's why the casting number.,


They offset the timing ( DE-TUNED the engine) by about 6* so they could meet or pass emission standard's.

The pistons, heads,Timing gear made for a Gas Guzzling Pig with Tons of torque.



George will be in here soon to help out as well.
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Old 12-21-2003, 01:55 AM
bassdude bassdude is offline
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i'm not sure how the pre-73's compare hp wise to the later ones, but my buddy's got a 71 lincoln with a 460 in it. there's a little plate mounted it the engine compartment that says its rated at 370 hp from the factory. i think it has the torque number to but i can't remember it. i want that motor.
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Old 12-21-2003, 02:11 AM
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I definately agree with the timing, put a double roller either straight up or at 4 degrees advanced.

D0VE heads are great, and D0OE-R's are overpriced, and do not offer the throttle response that the D0VE's do, and only flow slightly better at moderate lifts. I found while doing research, that D0OE-R's (SCJ) heads flow there best at over .800 lift!! Thats racing territory, and not very useful at the rpm of a truck engine. Unless your drag racing at 8000 rpm, stay away from SCJ heads. The D0VE's work just as well, with only around 40 cfm difference in intake flow.

The exhaust side is where all 385 series heads lack, so a dual pattern cam favoring the exhaust side is desirable. A good set of headers, and your set.

I beleive that TRW makes a set of forged pistons for a 429, that are around 10.25:1 compression with 72cc heads. Retard ignition timing slightly and slow the advance to prevent detonation on pump gas.

Go with a Weiand Stealth, and an 800 Edelbrock EVS Thunder Series.
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Old 12-21-2003, 09:57 AM
georgedavila georgedavila is offline
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In '72 all 429/460 engines went from 10.5:1 compression ratio (11.3:1 on CJ/SCJ, dropped in '72) to 8.5:1 and in '73 8.0:1 by increasing the cylinder head combustion chamber size. At the same time the timing gear assembly was retarded 4° and the cam grind was changed to facilitate lower emissions. As Mil1ion posted, when compared to pre '72 engines, they turned it into a dog.
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Old 12-21-2003, 11:39 AM
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Got it, thanks guys. I knew that some changes were made but wasn't sure what they were. I was under the impression that the early heads were closed chambered which gave higher compression but had no idea 'bout how much and what diffs were with the lower end. I suppose that the C8 and C9VE engines were the same as the D0VE's or was there any changes between the late 60's engines and 1970? Oh yeah, here's one more, has anyone had any experience with the "police intercepter"? I heard these dudes came stock with 430 horse power.
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Old 12-21-2003, 07:31 PM
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I've heard of the PI, but the 430 hp is bogus, probably closer to 370 hp. The C8, C9 and D0VE heads are the same, save for some thermactor air passage changes.


EDIT:

Also, the pre '72 heads are closed chamber.
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Old 12-21-2003, 07:34 PM
georgedavila georgedavila is offline
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In 1970/71 the Police Interceptor was the 429 CJ engine, not SCJ, factory under-rated at 360hp, closer to 400hp. In '72 it was a 429, low compression engine with D20E PI heads/rail rockers/guideplaces and slightly different cam, I believe 255hp as all the manufacturers had gone to net hp ratings. '73-75 460 with D20E heads, heard rumors of D30E heads but never saw them, and by '76 it was a standard production, dog 460.

For all practical purposes, '68-71 standard production engines are the same, some difference in deck height. 70/71 CJ was DOOE heads, mostly 2-bolt mains, DOOE rods, cast pistons. SCJ the same but 4-bolt block, forged pistons, DOOE rods, adjustible valve train and larger carb.
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Old 12-25-2003, 02:38 AM
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there were a lot chages between gross and net horsepower. As a rule its about 70% of the gross if you want to compare the gross horsepower with net. And as mentioned the compression was lowered and timing was retarded during the early 70's.
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Old 12-30-2003, 02:30 PM
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Funny all my books show a 8° retard at the crank gear.

1972 HP 212/4400, TQ 342/2800 SAE Net


My 78 F250 drops 212 HP & 353 TQ with 125K Miles engine stock

Mods: true duals, 429 lower gear, MSD dist and Holley Carb.
Run was with a SAFE tune.
So LOTS more power available !
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Old 12-30-2003, 02:37 PM
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In my 77 f150 4x4 is a 460 out of a 83 e350 van. I looked up the 83 e350 van with a 460 in a library book, and it said the net hp was 214, the net tourque was 384 lbs. ft.
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Old 01-02-2004, 12:30 AM
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68-71 heads are 75.8cc and will give a 10.5:1 comp,@385hp. 72-74 heads are 91.4cc and will give a 8.5;1 comp. 75-78 heads are 96.2cc and will give you a 8.0:1 comp. 70-71 429 police,cj, and scj heads,doae-h and c9ve-a are a 73.5cc and will give you a 11.3:1 comp. 73-74 police heads d34e are a 89.0 cc and will give you a 8.6:1 comp.

Last edited by cobralola; 01-02-2004 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 01-02-2004, 10:10 AM
georgedavila georgedavila is offline
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I think we've gone through this countless times over the past few years. There is only one CJ/SCJ casting number for iron heads, DOOE-R.
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Old 01-02-2004, 10:10 AM
 
 
 
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